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Civility

TheAuldGrump

First Post
Getting back to my main point, as opposed to whether 4e should be considered as a board game, has elements of a board game, or what not - the game was enough of a departure from the previous edition(s) that it could, and likely should, have been marketed in parallel with 3.X as opposed to replacing it.

Whether 4e is a combat sim, a board game, or whatever is largely a factor caused by the departure from the previous model.

The Auld Grump
 

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pemerton

Legend
At least I would rather play 4e than Talisman
Harsh words! (Though admittedly it's 20 years or more since I've played a game of Talisman.)

Do you know Mystic Wood? I picked up a copy second hand a few years ago, and actually unpacked it and played through a few games solitaire-style over the recent holidays. It seems like a fun enough game, and tighter in resolution than Talisman.

But - to return to your regularly scheduled, but utterly civil, edition war! - I couldn't really compare it to an RPG. In particular, there is no fictional positioning. To the extent that there is a shared imaginary space, it is merely colour.
 

TheAuldGrump

First Post
Harsh words! (Though admittedly it's 20 years or more since I've played a game of Talisman.)

Do you know Mystic Wood? I picked up a copy second hand a few years ago, and actually unpacked it and played through a few games solitaire-style over the recent holidays. It seems like a fun enough game, and tighter in resolution than Talisman.

But - to return to your regularly scheduled, but utterly civil, edition war! - I couldn't really compare it to an RPG. In particular, there is no fictional positioning. To the extent that there is a shared imaginary space, it is merely colour.
Heh, sorry about that. :p

I do not remember what all the sets were - it might even have been just plain Talisman. I can tell you that the characters all had metal models though.

Gods above and below, I hated that game. I ended up winning the last time that I played because I got so sick of how long it was taking that I made a beeline for the Crown, instead of spending hours building up my character....

I will agree that comparing 4e to Talisman is kind of like comparing apples to oranges, but anyone who thinks that Clue doesn't have role playing elements has never seen me play Clue.... :lol:

The Auld Grump, you may wonder why I have gathered you all here, but at this time I will attempt to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Professor Plum committed the murder of Mr. Boddy in the Billiard Room with a Rope....
 

pemerton

Legend
I do not remember what all the sets were - it might even have been just plain Talisman. I can tell you that the characters all had metal models though.

Gods above and below, I hated that game. I ended up winning the last time that I played because I got so sick of how long it was taking that I made a beeline for the Crown, instead of spending hours building up my character....
I do have memories of Talisman dragging on, and on, and on, and . . .

Mystic Wood is not related except in genre. It is by Avalon Hill (I think), and the "board" is an array of 9 x 5 tiles with connecting paths, teleporters etc. Each player plays a knight who has to achieve a specified quest (varies by knight) to win the game. I think it was based, in part, on the earlier game by the same publisher Sorcerer's Cave.
 

TheAuldGrump

First Post
I do have memories of Talisman dragging on, and on, and on, and . . .

Mystic Wood is not related except in genre. It is by Avalon Hill (I think), and the "board" is an array of 9 x 5 tiles with connecting paths, teleporters etc. Each player plays a knight who has to achieve a specified quest (varies by knight) to win the game. I think it was based, in part, on the earlier game by the same publisher Sorcerer's Cave.
That sounds familiar... hex shaped tiles?

The Auld Grump
 

pemerton

Legend
That sounds familiar... hex shaped tiles?
Rectangular. I haven't tallied them, but something like half connect on all four sides, while the others connect only 3. They are placed face down and then flipped when a knight lands on one to explore it. There are two halves to the tile array, each with its own set of tiles - the Earthly Wood and the Enchanted Wood - but this has no mechanical effect except (i) to guarantee that certain locations named on the tiles will always be in one or the other half (eg the Cave is on an earthly tile, while the Palace and Island are both on enchanted tiles), and (ii) to allow the board to be described in "mirror" terms (ie this earthly tile is the mirror of this enchanted tile) which is then used for teleporting and the like.

When a tile is flipped, it is revealed to be either a path or a clearing. If a clearing, a card is chosen from the "denizens" pile, and depending what it is the relevant resolution rules are invoked - there can be fighting, reaction rolls (which can be modified by stats, but there is no "negotiating" or free roleplaying with NPCs) or the standard sorts of spell effects one would expect in a romantic fantasy game (ensnared by an enchantress, lost in a mystic fog, etc).

There are only a few "monsters": wild ox, wild boar, saracen, troll, giant and orc; and interestingly, the orc is the most fearsome. The other NPCs are what one would expect - kings, princesses, hermits, Merlin, an elf, a dwarf who leads you to magic armour, etc.

I don't play a lot of boardgames, and so am not drawing on much experience, but based on my solo playthroughs I would expect a game with four players to take a couple of hours. I haven't played the new D&D games (Ravenloft etc) - I only know them from what I've read at the WotC site, plus a couple of reviews and actual play posts. But my feeling is that Mystic Wood would be a bit more languid and a bit less intense in the way it plays (in some ways much like the difference between 1970s/early 90s RPGs, and contemporary ones).
 

TheAuldGrump

First Post
Rectangular. I haven't tallied them, but something like half connect on all four sides, while the others connect only 3. They are placed face down and then flipped when a knight lands on one to explore it. There are two halves to the tile array, each with its own set of tiles - the Earthly Wood and the Enchanted Wood - but this has no mechanical effect except (i) to guarantee that certain locations named on the tiles will always be in one or the other half (eg the Cave is on an earthly tile, while the Palace and Island are both on enchanted tiles), and (ii) to allow the board to be described in "mirror" terms (ie this earthly tile is the mirror of this enchanted tile) which is then used for teleporting and the like.

When a tile is flipped, it is revealed to be either a path or a clearing. If a clearing, a card is chosen from the "denizens" pile, and depending what it is the relevant resolution rules are invoked - there can be fighting, reaction rolls (which can be modified by stats, but there is no "negotiating" or free roleplaying with NPCs) or the standard sorts of spell effects one would expect in a romantic fantasy game (ensnared by an enchantress, lost in a mystic fog, etc).

There are only a few "monsters": wild ox, wild boar, saracen, troll, giant and orc; and interestingly, the orc is the most fearsome. The other NPCs are what one would expect - kings, princesses, hermits, Merlin, an elf, a dwarf who leads you to magic armour, etc.

I don't play a lot of boardgames, and so am not drawing on much experience, but based on my solo playthroughs I would expect a game with four players to take a couple of hours. I haven't played the new D&D games (Ravenloft etc) - I only know them from what I've read at the WotC site, plus a couple of reviews and actual play posts. But my feeling is that Mystic Wood would be a bit more languid and a bit less intense in the way it plays (in some ways much like the difference between 1970s/early 90s RPGs, and contemporary ones).
Wow, I thought that I knew most Avalon Hill games, but that one rings no bells whatsoever.

The one I was thinking of was titled Magic Realm - each player had a different quest, and went exploring through hex tiles trying to complete their quest before the other players.

Hmmm, topic drift disease... I think that we have contracted it....

The Auld Grump, but, hey! At least we're civil.... :p
 


pemerton

Legend
The one I was thinking of was titled Magic Realm - each player had a different quest, and went exploring through hex tiles trying to complete their quest before the other players.
I've got a copy of Magic Realm, but have never played it or even really looked at it. A friend gave it to me years ago because she was not able to make head or tail of it (as an RPGer she was much more of a thespian/performer than a mechanical/technical gamer). It's curently in storage at my partner's mother's house, but my pleasant afternoons spent looking through Mystic Wood did make me think of giving it a look, and your post is reinforcing that inclination!

Hmmm, topic drift disease... I think that we have contracted it...
I think that's permissible on a thread about everyone getting along.
 


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