D&D 5E Classes with resources feel like usage is too restrained

[WaywardWaffle]

Okay, so WAY WAY WAY more discussionthan I was anticipating.


Here are the solutions I've come upwith to the major problem in the OP.


First off, these solutions are based onthe knowledge that 5e IS balanced around the 6-8 encounter day, butis not hard set on it. The edition is made to be extremely fluid, andallows much more flexibility from the DM than prior editions. Withthat in mind let's see what I can come up with.


First off the rest mechanic, there wasa number of smaller arguments about the rest mechanic through thepages. Here is a rest variant:
“A short rest is a period oflow-activity time in relative security, the length of which isdetermined by particular circumstance, anywhere from 5 minutes to 8hours”
“A long rest is a period of extendeddown time in a safe, comfortable location over at least 8 hours,during which a character must be able to safely attend to their basicbiological needs (eating, drinking, writing a poem if they feel likeit, many races don't sleep but they must still be able to rest theireyes if they want to)”
ie. Remove random encounters becausethey aren't fun and are just dice rolling for the sake of it.
Examples:

1. During overland travel through harsh terrain a DM may judge that long rests simply are not possible, that is, until the party stumbles across a lucky Inn at a crossroad.
   
2. Within a cave complex, the party wipes out a small group of goblins with deadly efficiency, the DM decides they can take a 5 minute breather to clear their heads.
   
3. Later in this save cave complex, the party has raised an alarm and manage to barricade themselves within an isolated room. The atmosphere is tense and the Pcs are exhausted, they decide to take a long rest to let things die down. The DM rules this to be 24 hours long, during which at least one party member must be completely alert.

These leave the rest length, andoptional circumstances required up to the DM. They MUST keep in mindwhat may be coming, and how this can affect short rest or long restbased resource classes.


Not a perfect fix, but posting herewill let you guys look things over and give critiques.


Second, how can I fix the feeling of anarchtype not feeling very special? Or a class itself feeling at oddswith the rest of the party (say, a monk surrounded by full casterswho never need to short rest.)
The easiest, least chaotic solution Ifound through the thread was gifting the classes/archtypes 2 things.

1. An at-will ability that reflects the flavour of the class. Using monk as my example:
   - Way of Shadow gets minor illusion at 3rd level, among other spells. These aren't super interesting though. An easy fix here is to swap Shadow Step and Shadow Arts (giving a small buff to arts if need be). They can teleport between shadows at will from 3rd level.
   - Way of the Open Hand gets a buff to flurry of blows at 3rd level, so still using ki to gain some kind of benefit. A solution to this one is a bit harder because the archtype focuses so much on basic attacks. But this is what I came up with: “Once per turn when you hit with a monk weapon, you may knock the target prone, slide them 5ft in any direction, or attempt a grapple as part of the attack action.”
   - Way of the Four Elements as people mentioned is the weakest of the 3. The addition to this one is fairly easy at least, just give them an at-will elemental spell. This can come in two suggested forms. First being Absorb Elements, the second being a custom cantrip that functions like Chromatic Orb, single target, #d6 damage of a type of your choice. Either way, the cost of the elemental features it can use is reduced to 1+Spell Level.
   
2. Second is a way to regenerate resources outside of a rest.
   - Again using the monk, a fairly good idea was suggested: Outside of a rest a Monk can meditate intensely for 5 minutes at a time, restoring 1 ki for every 5 minutes meditated. They also suggested 1hp/minute at higher levels but that's an aside buff.

These are all solutions exclusive tothe monk, the Fighter would require some more looking into things.


Finally, a BIG shake up to the systemthat would need a lot of looking at would be modifying the core gameto be built on an average of 3-4 more intense encounters per day,which varying lengths of short rests between 1 or 2 encounters. Thiswould encourage nova a lot and burning big spells on big effects, sothere'd be loads to work on for this.

 

[CapnZapp]

That's not very helpful though mate.

You kinda bemoaned the lack of a milestone resource replenishment system or published modules locking you into a 6-8 encounter AD, yet in the same breath infer that you wouldn't want the game to rely on either system.

At present, 5E uses a series of dials (letting you fine tune class and encounter balance by messing with the number of encounters and frequency of rests, even on a session by session basis), provides a number of other options (varying rests by lengthening or shortening them) and even provides some limited advice on the 'adventuring day', It then hands the keys to the shop over to the DM to play around with the above.

I admit the DMG missed the boat here, and could have spelled out what we all know via experience and reading over the game as a whole;

1) DnD is (at its core) a resource management game, and
2) Different classes use different resource recovery methods (some are short rest focused, and some are long rest focused), and thus different classes gain different benefits from longer (or shorter) adventuring days and from more (or less) rests, and
3) This 'adventuring day' paradigm as a whole impacts on encounter difficulty and class balance depending on the number and frequency of the encounters and rests you (as the DM) permit.

To put it a simpler way, short rest classes gain more benefits from more short rests (they are expected to get 2-3 per long rest). Long rest classes are at their peak when dealing with only the single encounter per long rest. The more encounters between long rests, the more they have to ration those resources (which are expected to last them 6-8 encounters). Classes that are resource neutral like the Rogue are generally OK either way, on both longer and shorter days, and gain little (barring healing) from resting (Arcane trickster being the exception).

Once you accept the above as being true (and it is), you can then (as DM) tweak class and encounter balance, not by nerfing or buffing classes, or extensive rules changes, but simply by policing the adventuring day (adding or subtracting encounters to your adventuring day, or adding or subtracting long or short rests) to suit your own preferences and taste.

If your party fighter is getting left behind in the dust by the casters, use your prerogative to add more short rest opportunities and more encounters between long rests for a while. If the inverse is true, do the opposite. This way you can ensure every PC has a chance to shine, and balance is maintained in a natural and not forced 'you must finish this amount of encounters to ride the rollercoaster' way.

If done right you retain the variety of different adventuring days of different lengths (some one encounter, some featuring a dozen), ensure overall class balance (some days favor some classes, and some days favor others), keeping all classes unique and maintaining encounter balance, while avoiding the same-ness that plagued 4E.

I'm not sure how to respond. You're telling me the exact same thing, over and over.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Yeah, a milestone resource refresh would have been a nice option.

Im not sure I would have wanted it in there as the default though

Agreed. Like I said, it's not in keeping with DM Empowerment. Presenting a trade-off like that assumes pacing is entirely in the players' hands, and that's not a good assumption. Pacing is the kind of tool 5e needs in the DM's hands. An opt-in module with a 'milestone' mechanic is such a tool, bring it /in/ if you want to balance the tendency for players to seek shorter days.. Opting in is very much on the DM's initiative. As an opt-out standard rule, it would set player expectations of a default in which pacing is their decision..

, and it brings us back to the issue of 'samey-ness + gamey-ness'

It needn't be the same incentive for every class, nor even by class, necessarily, anymore than each class has the same resources in the first place. As far as 'gamey,' well, yes, it's a game...

I admit the DMG missed the boat here, and could have spelled out what we all know via experience and reading over the game as a whole;

1) DnD is (at its core) a resource management game, and

Wow, terribly gamey, that. ;|

2) Different classes use different resource recovery methods (some are short rest focused, and some are long rest focused), and thus different classes gain different benefits from longer (or shorter) adventuring days and from more (or less) rests, and
3) This 'adventuring day' paradigm as a whole impacts on encounter difficulty and class balance depending on the number and frequency of the encounters and rests you (as the DM) permit.

Which is exactly why pacing needs to be something the DM has more tools to manipulate than the players.

you can then (as DM) tweak class and encounter balance, not by nerfing or buffing classes, or extensive rules changes, but simply by policing the adventuring day (adding or subtracting encounters to your adventuring day, or adding or subtracting long or short rests)...This way you can ensure every PC has a chance to shine, and balance is maintained in a natural and not forced

Yep, dynamic 'spotlight' balance - not something the game is, but something the DM does.
I guess it could seem a little forced, depending on how deft you were at inserting encounters and presenting/denying rest opportunities. That's one of the dangers of DM Empowerment, being too heavy-handed with it.

I'm not sure how to respond.

Something along the lines of "Oh, yes, of course, I see it now..."