Cleave ans AoO

[Mighty Veil]

Can you cleave (or greater cleave) when doing a AoO?

 

[Storyteller01]

It'll start one he!! of a debate, but FAQ's and such say yes.

 

[Fieari]

The RAW also pretty much says you can too.

The argument you'll get is that this is either unrealistic or unfair, and if you feel this way and are the DM, go ahead and houserule. But by RAW, yes. You can. If you'd like to play by RAW and are bothered by the "realism" factor, there are all sorts of flavorful explanations for what is actually happening that can be used. Note that just because the feat is called "cleave" doesn't mean that it has to represent you cutting an enemy in half and proceeding to slice the one next to it. Esspecially since you can cleave with bludgeoning weapons, can use the cleave to attack someone on the opposite side as you (even with really low ceilings and obstacles to your left and right!) and other such things.

The rules say you can, how you describe it is up to you. If you feel this unbalances things (why should a BBEG be easier to kill if he keeps lots of weak minions around?) that's another matter.

 

[FireLance]

If (like me) you don't like the idea of Cleaving off an AOO, you could consider using the following benefit for Cleave:

Once per round, after you have dropped an opponent with a melee attack, you may act as though you had not spent an action to drop that opponent. If you drop an opponent with one of your regular attacks, you may make an attack against another opponent you threaten using the same base attack bonus (including any reduction for iterative attacks) as the attack that dropped the first opponent, plus any other modifiers that would normally apply to your attack roll against the second opponent. If you drop an opponent with an attack of opportunity, it does not count against the number of attacks of opportunity you may make in that round.

 

[Thanee]

While I realize, that it is technically possible, I do not allow it, because I give the Cleave attack (which is with the same attack modifiers as the original attack) the same restrictions as the original attack (that is, you can only Cleave into targets you could have attacked with the original attack also), during an AoO, your viable targets are restricted to exactly one, therefore you cannot Cleave, since you just ran out of viable targets.

I feel this is closer to the spirit of the rules represented by Cleave.

Bye
Thanee

 

[KarinsDad]

Once per round, after you have dropped an opponent with a melee attack, you may act as though you had not spent an action to drop that opponent. If you drop an opponent with one of your regular attacks, you may make an attack against another opponent you threaten using the same base attack bonus (including any reduction for iterative attacks) as the attack that dropped the first opponent, plus any other modifiers that would normally apply to your attack roll against the second opponent. If you drop an opponent with an attack of opportunity, it does not count against the number of attacks of opportunity you may make in that round.

Send this to WotC. Maybe they'll use it for 4E and we can get rid of this discussion once and for all.

 

[TheEvil]

I think it is kind of nice that this discussion has been had so many times that we can skip the "does not-does too" portion of the thread, not to mention the trashing of the FAQ and Sage Advice and go straight to the part where we agree what the rules are and suggest what we think would be better.

 

[Thanee]

If you drop an opponent with an attack of opportunity, it does not count against the number of attacks of opportunity you may make in that round.

I would not do that. There is no need for Cleave improving the AoO routine. It also makes little sense, that you can react to more situations, just because you can make powerful melee attacks. There is no connection between those two.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Evilhalfling]

Dr Death TM maker of the infamous Bag of Zombie Puppies TM and writer of 101 cleave tricks says:
yes!
remember: he is evil so you don't have to be!

 

[FireLance]

I would not do that. There is no need for Cleave improving the AoO routine. It also makes little sense, that you can react to more situations, just because you can make powerful melee attacks. There is no connection between those two.

The way I justify it is: your attacks are so powerful, dropping a weak opponent is almost effortless. The basic effect I'm trying to get is: once per round, you can drop an opponent as a free action.