Cleric 1 / Wizard x Skillmonkey for RP campaign

[redCartel]

I'm about to start playing in a homebrew Ravenloft campaign that I'm told will feature a fair bit of RP and I have a concept for an scholar / investigator.

My idea for the build is to begin with a single level in Cleric (Knowledge) for AC, bless, and expertise

My concern is that missing even a single level of Wizard is too suboptimal to be justified. I know this DM and even if it's a more RP heavy campaign, I don't expect combat to be easy.

Here's the buildout at level 1

Variant Human
Int - 16, Dex - 14, Con - 14, Wis - 12, Cha - 10, Str - 8
Skill & Language: Stealth & Draconic
Feat: Prodigy (expertise in investigation, sylvan language, weaver's tools)
Knowledge Cleric - Expertise in Arcana and Religion, Infernal & Celestial languages
Chain shirt & shield
Sling & dagger
Cantrips: Light, Mending, Guidance
Spells (2 + domain): Bless, Healing Word, Identify, Command

Background variant: Court scholar (variant sage)
Cartographer's Tools & Calligrapher's Tools
Nature & Perception subbing for skills I have.

Big upside here is 5 languages, 8 skills (3 with expertise) and 3 tools (all of which give knowledge / investigation aid in XGtE)

From there I level in Wizard, going either Divination (which is powerful and fits the concept, and is stronger in games where dice are rolled less frequently) or Illusionist (which just looks fun)

Thoughts?

 

[Volund]

I have played this build, Knowledge Cleric 1/Diviner X, up through level 5 and overall he was a boss at Int checks so if that's what you are aiming for then you are on the right track. I took Resilient (Con) as my starting feat, and had expertise in 2 skills, Arcana and History. He was a sage/librarian that had joined up with some adventurers in order to explore and chronicle the ruins of an ancient empire which were now overrun with dangerous creatures. Nobody expected me to be a top tier combatant, and I more than carried my weight when it came to reading ancient writing and figuring out how to deactivate magical traps and other types of puzzles. We had another wizard (illusionist) in the party, as well as a barbarian, fighter, bard, and rogue/ranger, so I wasn't the only healer or the only arcane caster. I didn't do the most damage, but I provided a lot of information that helped the party navigate some difficult encounters, and supported the party with portents and healing, so I think I played my part in our success. I mean, how powerful is a librarian supposed to be anyway?

My starting stats were S 10, D 13, C 13, I 15, W 13, Ch 9, and after the V.Human feat and stat boost it was 10/14/14/16/13/9. You can't MC out of Cleric unless you have at least a 13 Wis, as per the MC rules, PHB 163. You can do that easily enough by moving a point from Cha to Wis.

In tier 1 I don't think you'll be suboptimal in combat, but I would recommend using a light crossbow for as many attacks as possible. In levels 1-4 the xbow is better avg damage than the Firebolt you'll probably take at Wizard 1. At level 5 you won't have fireball but you can still spam Firebolt attacks for 2d10 damage. The good thing is that this MC doesn't lose any spell slots, so at least you will get 3rd level slots on schedule. We were fighting a lot of incorporeal undead, and a 3rd level magic missile is just as good against a wraith as a 3rd level fireball.

I MC about 80% of my 5e characters and every MC feels weak at level 5, but I've found that once you get your 3rd level spells, Extra Attack, etc you don't feel like you are weaker than other characters. If you think the character would be fun to play, then play it and don't worry about power optimizing. Suboptimal is the Sorcerer with 10 Dex, 10 Con, and no Mage Armor that I have played alongside on separate occasions with 2 different players. Neither character lasted very long.

 

[Blue]

Another bonus cleric will give you is the Guidance cantrip. Great for all skill checks.

I don't think you'll be hurt too badly as a wizard. You aren't losing any spell slots, just one half spell level behind in learning higher level spells. So on the odd level you have slots you need to fill with upcasting instead of spells of that level.

Not fantastic, true. Debilitating, not so much.

Also, you get a bunch of extra spells known, you get to start with medium armor and shield for a much better AC (and slot saved) compared to Mage Armor.

You will need a 13 WIS, but that's low enough it's not too costly, helps your Perception, and with medium armor you don't need to get your DEX higher than 14 to max out AC.

 

[redCartel]

Hmmmmmm......

Being forced to go with a 13 and a 9 really does not appeal. That represents a fair bit of wasted potential. This has me thinking critically about this plan.

As much as I like the bag of goodies that one level of Knowledge Cleric grants me, I'm looking at the Observant feat and thinking that that might be sufficient as far as a boost to investigative ability goes. Losing that AC is rough, but it means considerably stronger spells every other level.

New thought: Wizard at first level. Observant Feat.
Int 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Wis 8, Cha 12, Str 8
Investigation, Perception, Arcana, Religion, Persuasion

So I'm not as much a font of knowledge. But with Investigation at +10(!) and Perception at +7, I still play the detective role quite well. Persuasion is nice to have in social encounters. I always estimate that about 1/4 of the game is spent away from combat, and if a character lacks impactful abilities outside of combat rounds, they aren't actually optimized for what D&D really is.

I think this might be the way to play a reasonably well-rounded character without sacrificing anything for my primary role as an arcane caster. I'll miss bless, guidance, and that sweet sweet Cleric AC, but 16 with Mage Armor is not terrible. If I were really combat focused, I'd go with Magic Initiate for an extra Shield casting, but being a master detective is worth a slight lack of optimization.

Diviner fits the character concept, but War Mage might be the way to go if I get the sense that it's going to be a rough and tumble campaign with tough fights. The AC and Initiative bonuses are really strong.

(edited with updated thoughts)

 

[Gavin O.]

Note that the observant feat only boosts your passive investigation, so it won't apply to when you're making a conscious effort to investigate something. While YMMV, I don't often find my DM asking me for my passive investigation.

Do you know who else will be in your party? If you've got a sorcerer, bard, paladin, or other Cha-primary class, you can let them handle the Charisma-based checks that you won't be as good at. Alternatively, if you don't, you might want run Half-elf instead of human, which gets +2 Cha, two free skills, and darkvision.