Cleric/Paladin Build for EtDWP

[Ariel]

Hello. This is my first post here and thought it would be good to begin by submitting a character for everyone's review, as people seem to enjoy those discussions.

I am a fairly new 3.5 player and wanted to get some thoughts on a character that I have worked up for the Expedition to the Demonweb Pits adventure.

My DM allows the Core Books, PHB II, "Complete" series, and "Races" series, and can be convinced to let other things in. The starting gold is 36000 gp. I am going for the Knight of the Chalice PrC if/when I level up.

Thanks!
~ Ariel ~~{@

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Character Race: Human
Character Class/Level: Cleric 3/Paladin 6
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Abilities: (80 point buy)

Strength: 16 (+3) (15 buy +1 4th lvl)
Dexterity: 12 (+1)
Constitution: 14 (+2) (12 buy +2 magic)
Intelligence: 10 (+0)
Wisdom: 14 (+2)
Charisma: 18 (+4) (17 buy +1 8th lvl)

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Armor Class: 25 = Base (10), Dex (1), Armor (10), Shield (4), Misc (0)
Flatfooted AC: 24 = Base (10), Armor (10), Shield (4), Misc (0)
Touch AC: 11 = Base (10), Dex (1), Misc (0)
Armor Type & Weight Class: Full Plate Mail +2 - Heavy

Hit Points: 75

Initiative Modifier: +1 = DEX (1) + Misc (0)

Base Attack Bonus (BAB): +8/+3
Melee Attack Bonus (MAB): +11 = BAB (8) + STR (3) + SIZE (0) + MISC (0)
Ranged Attack Bonus (RAB): +9 = BAB (8) + DEX (1) + SIZE (0) + MISC (0)
Grapple Attack Bonus (GAB): +11 = BAB (8) + STR (3) + SIZE (0) + MISC (0)

MAB:

+1 Longsword, Holy, +13/+8hit (+11 MAB, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Magic), Damage 1d8+3 str/+1 magic/(17-20 x2)+(2d6 vs evil)

RAB:

+1 Composite Longbow (+1 Str tuned), +10/hit (+9 RAB, +1 magic), 1d8+1/dam, [20/x3], R = 110'

Saving Throws:
Fortitude: +14 = Base (8) + CON (2) + Misc (4)
Reflex: +8 = Base (3) + DEX (1) + Misc (4)
Will: +11 = Base (5) + WIS (2) + Misc (4)

Skills:

Trained: (Skills must have ranks to be used)
+6 = Handle Animal (CHA) 4 + 2 + 0 [type]
+10 = Knowledge - Religion (INT) 0 + 10 + 0 [type]
+5 = Knowledge - the Planes (INT) 0 + 5 + 0 [type]
+4 = Profession - Blacksmith (WIS) 2 +2 + 0 [type]

Untrained: (Skills any character can use, no ranks required)
+0 = Appraise (INT) 0 + 0 + 0 [type]
+1 = Balance (DEX) 1 + 0 + 0 [ACP]
+4 = Bluff (CHA) 4 + 0 + 0 [type]
+3 = Climb (STR) 3 + 0 + 0 [ACP]
+2 = Concentration (CON) 2 + 0 + 0 [type]
+0 = Craft - subtype (INT) 0 + 0 + 0 [type]
+11 = Diplomacy (CHA) 4 + 7 + 0 [type]
+4 = Disguise (CHA) 4 + 0 + 0 [type]
+1 = Escape Artist (DEX) 1 + 0 + 0 [ACP]
+0 = Forgery (INT) 0 + 0 + 0 [type]
+6 = Gather Information (CHA) 4 + 2 + 0 [type]
+7 = Heal (WIS) 2 + 5 + 0 [type]
+1 = Hide (DEX) 1 + 0 + 0 [ACP]
+4 = Intimidate (CHA) 4 + 0 + 0 [type]
+3 = Jump (STR) 3 + 0 + 0 [ACP]
+5 = Listen (WIS) 2 + 3 + 0 [type]
+1 = Move Silently (DEX) 1 + 0 + 0 [ACP]
+4 = Perform |Subtype| (CHA) 4 + 0 + 0 [type]
+6 = Ride (DEX) 1 + 5 + 0 [type]
+0 = Search (INT) 0 + 0 + 0 [type]
+8 = Sense Motive (WIS) 2 + 6 + 0 [type]
+5 = Spot (WIS) 2 + 3 + 0 [type]
+2 = Survival (WIS) 2 + 0 + 0 [type]
+3 = Swim (STR) 3 + 0 + 0 [ACPx2]
+1 = Use Rope (DEX) 1 + 0 + 0 [type]
1 = Languages: Common, Celestial (2 sk points)

Feats:
Human - Weapon Focus (longsword)
Level 1 - Quick Draw
Level 3 - Extra Smiting (+2 smite attempts)
Level 6 - Domain Spontaneity (Strength) - Burn a turn attempt to cast domain spell
Level 9 - Improved Critical (Longsword)

Domains: Destruction/Strength
Turn Undead: cleric 7/day; paladin 7/day (For both: level 3 +6 mod on check)
Caster Save DC 12 (level 1) or 13 (level 2)

Spells Prepared:

Pal:
Lvl 1 (2/day): lesser restoration, bless weapon


Cleric:
Lvl 0 (4) detect magic, read magic, detect poison, guidance
Lvl 1 (3+1) omen of peril (from complete divine), sanctuary, protection from evil, (enlarge person)
Lvl 2 (2+1) spiritual weapon, silence (bull's strength)


Equipment

+2 full plate - 5,650
+4 to AC = +2 hs shield = 4,170
Amulet of Health (+2 Con) - 4,000
+1 holy longsword (18,315) (gives off daylight on command)
+1 composite longbow (+1 str tuned) (1400 gp)
Warhammer 8 gp
Dagger 2 gp
(20 cold iron arrows) - (10 gp)
(potions) flying (750),
(scrolls) remove paralaysis (150 gp); remove curse (300 gp)
Wand of cure light wounds (750 gp)
Silver holy symbol (25 gp)
1 incense for augury
(mundane items to be added)

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Character looks interesting - and welcome to the boards!

Justa note, I'm assuming when you say point buy that you are talking about adding up the pure ability scores. In your case, 15 + 12 + 12 + 14 + 10 + 17 = 80 points. In 3.5 lingo, this would equate to a 8 + 4 + 4 + 6 + 2 + 13 = 37 point buy. {Assuming I did my math right.} Not that this is anything done wrong, just making sure you understand how the lingo is used here!

I was about to suggest Favored Soul instead of cleric (because FS would give you a boost to saves and WF for free) and then I realized that you need the level in cleric for the prerequisite knowledge skills. Other than that, have fun with the character!

 

[Darklone]

...In your case, 15 + 12 + 12 + 14 + 10 + 17 = 80 points. In 3.5 lingo, this would equate to a 8 + 4 + 4 + 6 + 2 + 13 = 37 point buy...

Welcome to the boards, Ariel!

In the case of a multiclassed paladin cleric, I'd ask my DM if he allows the prestige paladin from Unearthed Arcana (UA here on the boards). It can be found here.

 

[moritheil]

Welcome to the boards!

The Prestige Paladin's only downside is that it requires mounted combat.

If going cleric/paladin, I strongly recommend that you take two or four cleric levels rather than three, and that they be cloistered cleric levels. Your first level should be in cloistered cleric to take advantage of the increased skill points.

Regarding feats:

Human - Weapon Focus (longsword)
Level 1 - Quick Draw
Level 3 - Extra Smiting (+2 smite attempts)
Level 6 - Domain Spontaneity (Strength) - Burn a turn attempt to cast domain spell
Level 9 - Improved Critical (Longsword)

Quick draw is usually not needed unless your DM is very strict about what you can do with your off hand (i.e. if he/she does not allow you to cast and wear a shield.)

Weapon focus is useful, but really your first two feats as a human should be specialty feats, such as Able Learner, or a regional feat from FR. Furious Charge and Luck of Heroes are a few good examples.

Extra Smiting is generally an OK feat, as is Domain Spontaneity, but the feats you really want to look into are Divine Metamagic and Practiced Spellcaster, since your caster level takes a hit when multiclassing.

Improved Critical is only really good if you plan on casting bless weapon frequently. Given your campaign, I would keep it and switch those paladin spell slots over to bless weapon.


Turn undead: You made a mistake. The paladin and cleric turns do not add; they stack in terms of level. You still only get the same total turns per day.

 

[nittanytbone]

Welcome to the Boards!

I'd submit that a pure cleric is stronger. If you must have the longsword and shield look, be a Radiant Servant of Pelor, use the War Domain, or be an Elf.

I assume that you're using the Strength domain to get Enlarge Person. I think you'll find much better synergy here with some sort of area control reach weapon (spiked chain?), combat reflexes, and improved trip.

Also, you'll probably want more concentration ranks to cast spells.

Finally, I'd look into some of the more powerful Divine Feats.

 

[Ariel]

Thank you for the welcome and all the feedback so far!

This character is for a PbP game, so I will post a link to the game once it gets going!

Everyone:

The DM hates UA, so anything from there is most definitely out. He is otherwise very lenient so I don't want to push him. Also, the game will be set in GH, so I can't use FR feats, etc. My deity will be St. Culbert, so that is where Strength and Destruction come from.

My primary tactic will be to use Bull's Strength and then jump into melee mounted on my warhorse (or on foot).

NLF - the DM uses the term "point buy" literally. In other words, an 18 costs 18 points, a 12 costs 12 points, etc. I know it is weird.

moritheil - why do you say that improved crit is only good if I cast BW frequently? Also, where are Divine Metamagic and Practiced Spellcaster? The DM is very strict about off hand rules, BTW.

nittanytbone - My race/class/weapon choices are for RP and party balance reasons. I will take those suggestions and use them to build enemies for the evil-aligned party in my own game though (unlimitedrpgs.com - Hordelands) There is already a pure cleric in the party.

What divine feats are you suggesting?

Thanks again.

 

[nittanytbone]

I think the question should be: What are you trying to do?

Massive Surviveability? You only have 14 con, so I don't think that's it... Your saves are pretty decent though.

Massive Offense? A two-handed weapon (greatsword) + power attack is usually the best way to max out damage...

Protection of Allies? You don't have any sort of area control feats or anything like that.

Awesome Spellcasting? Not with 3 Caster Levels and no practiced spellcaster feat.

Figure out what the goal of your build is and then you can figure out how to best attain those capabilities.

 

[Ariel]

I think the question should be: What are you trying to do?

Massive Surviveability? You only have 14 con, so I don't think that's it... Your saves are pretty decent though.

Massive Offense? A two-handed weapon (greatsword) + power attack is usually the best way to max out damage...

Protection of Allies? You don't have any sort of area control feats or anything like that.

Awesome Spellcasting? Not with 3 Caster Levels and no practiced spellcaster feat.

Figure out what the goal of your build is and then you can figure out how to best attain those capabilities.

Looking at it that way, the goals of the build are survivability and flexibility. We expect a tough adventure and a few character deaths. The purpose of this character is really to be the "second best" at a bunch of things. For example, I need to be the backup fighter when our Barbarian goes down and dole out healing and buffs when our single-classed cleric is hurt.

Make sense?

 

[Demoquin]

I am assuming he mentioned Imp Crit with Bless weapon as it will make ALL crits against EVIL successful.

 

[moritheil]

I am assuming he mentioned Imp Crit with Bless weapon as it will make ALL crits against EVIL successful.

Bingo. Mind you, a sacred scabbard is 4400 gp. That may be worth it if you need to be casting lesser restoration instead. Really IC/BW gets best if you can do something absurd like full power attack all the time with a weapon that has a wide critical range, because then you don't need to hit AC to hit; you just need to threaten and voila, autoconfirm!

moritheil - why do you say that improved crit is only good if I cast BW frequently? Also, where are Divine Metamagic and Practiced Spellcaster? The DM is very strict about off hand rules, BTW.

Complete Divine.