Climactic Sacrifice of PCs

[Trolls]

So I'm nearing the end of a PbP campaign that has been going on for years, and I find myself wondering about ways to make the climactic final scene all that more special. I came to the idea of needing one or more of the PCs to lay down his/her life in order to stop the Big Bad once and for all. I'm sure you all know the idea - "only the blood of an innocent, given freely, can seal the creature forever," or something similar.

How would you feel if such a choice was presented to you at the very end of the campaign?

The more I think about this, the more I come to the conclusion that while such an ending can work well for a novel or a movie, it's not a good thing for an RPG. Heroic sacrifices are great book ends for a character, and I'd be happy to lay down the life of a cherished character in some epic and meaningful way - but I'd have to be my choice to do so. In the situation described above, it's too forced and loses the selflessness that makes the act so meaningful.

So the second part of the point of the thread is: how can heroic sacrifices be presented by the DM such that there is no bitterness from the players or having the heroism fall flat?

I think one answer is to have the PCs come to the conclusion themselves though subtle suggestions, and to have an alternative to sacrifice available, but more difficult to achieve.
But, of course, I'm very interested in any ideas the good folks here have!

 

[shadzar]

I'm sure you all know the idea - "only the blood of an innocent, given freely, can seal the creature forever," or something similar.

How would you feel if such a choice was presented to you at the very end of the campaign?

Railroaded

The more I think about this, the more I come to the conclusion that while such an ending can work well for a novel or a movie, it's not a good thing for an RPG.

Agree,

So the second part of the point of the thread is: how can heroic sacrifices be presented by the DM such that there is no bitterness from the players or having the heroism fall flat?

I would say you can't. The PCs are in the control of the players. Requiring one of them to choose to die as the only way to resolve something is the very definition of a railroad. The players always need ot have a choice, and other options than just single method to overcome an obstacle.

The ONLY way I could see it possible was if the players were given fair warning well in advance by some sort of prediction/prophecy that gives the players a chance to devise a way to change the prediction, or one to accept the prophecy and become the one it mentions must die, fulfilling the prophecy.

What if the group decides to play this party again? The first thing they will have to do is get this character back to life. Character death is easily redacted via magic, so even a self-sacrifice isn't all that climactic to me.

But this is all just me. Your players may want to all lay their lives down since it is the end of the campaign.

 

[SiderisAnon]

I think that forcing the players into one of them sacrificing their character for the greater good is generally a bad way to go unless you've been leading up to this for quite some time. (As in everyone knows this will ultimately be required because someone has to throw themselves into Mount Doom with the One Ring to destroy it.)

However, there may be another way to go. If you have an NPC who has been in/around the group for a while and so would have some meaning if they die, have them be the sacrificial lamb. (If you have time, you can lay more groundwork toward this.) When the time comes, the NPC throws themselves into the volcano to save both the world and the party.

If you've been laying signs and portents to foreshadow this, make sure to leave yourself wiggle room so that it could be anyone in the party. Don't say, "The one with the birth mark," say, "The one born under the sign of the dragon." Then when it comes time, if another player really wants to throw themselves into the volcano by knocking out the NPC and taking their place, that is the player's choice. (And very cinematic.)

Or you can always do it the other way around. The players make a choice, the PC steps up, the NPC says, "I can't let you do this. You're too important to the world," sucker-punches the PC, grabs the ring, and throws himself into the volcano.

 

[pemerton]

how can heroic sacrifices be presented by the DM such that there is no bitterness from the players or having the heroism fall flat?

I think one answer is to have the PCs come to the conclusion themselves though subtle suggestions, and to have an alternative to sacrifice available, but more difficult to achieve.

I think your suggested answer is one way to go. Another thing that can help is that the purpose of the sacrifice is something not just that the PC cares about, but something that the player cares about - which tends to require some build up over the course of previous play.

You can also get much the same result if the player decides to sacrifice his/her PC before then discovering the alternative - at that point your player gets the satisfaction of having formed the heroic resolve, while also getting the satisfaction of not losing the PC.

An example from one of my campaigns: Over the course of many levels the PCs had had recurring encounters with the echo of a dead god, and also entered into the service of the dead's god still living brother. They had discovered that the dead god existed in at least three forms: (i) the echoes they kept meeting; (ii) a large physical body turned to stone and standing almost completely covered in water (if you know the Freeport trilogy, this was the island on which the lighthouse was being built); (iii) a living form trapped in the void locked in timeless combat with an evil otherworldly being. (A dead god can be a metaphysically complex being - I took some of this stuff from Requiem for a God.)

They also learned that it was in combat with the otherworldly being that the god had died, and that his eternal combat in the timeless plain was helping keep that being imprisoned and unable to ravage the world. This was part of a larger arrangement between the gods and the hells to keep the world safe - and the PCs regarded it as an unjust arrangement, because of the way it left the dead god suffering for all eternity.

Over the time that the PCs collected this information, they also discovered that the otherworldly being was beginning to escape its prison, and were taking the steps to keep it imprisoned. At the climax they used a gate spell to summon the living form of the dead god out of the void, in order to help them retrap the otherwordly being in its prison. They then had to decide who would go back into the void in order to maintain the eternal struggle there. The paladin PC - who had become the closest to the dead god over these various events - decided that he would take the dead god's place, because the dead god had suffered enough, and now had a chance to return to life again.

In the end, though, they discovered that a powerful artefact that had been made by a banished god who had been the dead god's closest ally (this was the Soul Totem from Bastion of Souls), and that the king of hell was using to reimprison the otherworldly being, could also be used to make a spiritual duplicate of the paladin, who could go into the void and take the dead god's place. So they tricked the king of hell into doing this (before then imprisoning him along with the otherworldy being), and the paladin PC himself was able to retire to the monastery he had founded, and which was dedicated to the worship of the (now no longer) dead god.

This climax to the campaign wouldn't have worked except for the three things I mentioned above: (i) the players, as well as their PCs, were highly invested, as far as the course of action culminating in sacrifice was concerned; (ii) the player really did decide to sacrifice his PC; (iii) the alternative only came to light after this decision had been made; (iv) the player was able to take the alternative without feeling that he'd compromised his values or his PC.

This was a very satisfying end to the campaign.

 

[ffy]

forcing the player into a sacrifice is not a good way to go, but giving them the choice and then nudging them towards it by offering up a prophesy written in the style of horoscopes seems like a good way. by that style i mean, it is written vaguely enough that every hero in the party thinks it is about them - but actually it also fits a cherished NPC. many players will want to be 'the chosen one' out of the party, not paying attention to the fact that being the one actually means having to lay down their life. and if none of the PCs take the bait the NPC can accept it or try to escape it (as fitting their character).

you could also mix in (one they start researching the prophesy) some background of similar sacrifices in which the heroes have been lost forever, but (cliche incoming) some guy managed to subvert permanent death and return even more powerful due to the experience, thus giving an 'out' to the sacrificed character to play in another campaign. i can imagine the first act of the next campaign being a trek through the planes to free the person without also setting the BBEG free.

the main point im trying to make is, it would take quite a bit of open-ended planning from you to finally arrive at a suitably climatic sacrifice without making the players feel railroaded or cheated. it is definitely not something to throw at the players at the very end of the adventure, but needs a lot of lead-up.

 

[Tonguez]

I think it can be done but it must always involve choice.

It is the end of the campaign and they may be going on to new characters anyway - why not give them a heroic ending and a chance at becoming Legends.

In one game the "sacrifice of innocence blood" was used in order to close the portal through which the epic spider god was going to emerge. The PCs could choose to sacrifice one of themselves or one of the NPC 'villagers' who they were attempting to save. The PC chose to sacrifice himself (he got a new character who was a former villager) - the sacrificed character become the guardian spirit of the village.

In another case the PCs were in a battle against the forces of evil, they had infiltrated the Dark Lords Fane at the bottom of the dungeon and needed to collapse the structure and seal the demon within. The PCs delivered explosives via an enchanted cart but someone needed to go in and light the fuse - one PC volunteered and as such was blown when the temple was collapsed and sealed. That site is now a shrine, and the PC a saint.

 

[thejc]

We sacrificed our PCs one time, it didn't feel railroaded. But necessary at the time. That campaign was one of the most memorable I'd ever played. That being said I cannot expect everyone to feel the same.

There are some really great ideas in this thread. Yoinked.

 

[S'mon]

Heroic sacrifice is cool if it comes from the player, not railroaded in by the GM.

How to do that in a PBEM? Well, have a friendly NPC the PCs like and respect at the final battle. Extra points if they're young and naive but fairly competent - maybe a young prince or princess. At the big crunch moment, you do the "Only an innocent life... etc" - the NPC prepares to step up to the plate, and 90% of players will let them sacrifice themself. But maybe, just maybe, one of the PCs really is a Big Damn Hero...

Another option is to set up a situation where one PC can hold off the BBEG long enough for the others to escape, get the maguffin etc; but if they all stay then they all die.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

The more I think about this, the more I come to the conclusion that while such an ending can work well for a novel or a movie, it's not a good thing for an RPG. Heroic sacrifices are great book ends for a character, and I'd be happy to lay down the life of a cherished character in some epic and meaningful way - but I'd have to be my choice to do so. In the situation described above, it's too forced and loses the selflessness that makes the act so meaningful.

I think that you answered your own question--it needs to be the player's choice. I played in a PBEM and at one point asked the GM if my character could sacrifice himself to defeat one of the main villains. The GM agreed and took control of the scene to describe the combat, the sacrifice, and the defeat. The GM wasn't pushing for a sacrifice but because it was a momentous event, was my choice, and was meaningful, it worked perfectly.

So the second part of the point of the thread is: how can heroic sacrifices be presented by the DM such that there is no bitterness from the players or having the heroism fall flat?

I think the best way is to ensure (through your omnipotence of being the GMing) that the heroism doesn't fall flat. In my example above it would have left a bitter taste in my mouth if the GM okayed the sacrifice and had us play out combat because my character was an elderly former knight and would have been slain with no effort from the villain. Instead, the GM took my request and resolved it outside of rolls and the rules.

As a GM, if you agree to a character's sacrifice, it's your responsibility to make it meaningful. Otherwise I wager you'd have a disappointed player on your hands.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I did this at the end of a campaign, and it did fall flat. I felt like I was offering them a choice, but one weakness is I was offering the players a choice, not the characters.

They had traveled back in time to when humanoids had appeared in the world. It had been a mystery because hordes of them had appeared from nowhere in just a few years. They found massive birthing chambers guarded by only a relatively small amount of adults, created by the god of destruction. They had the opportunity to escape the chambers, and return to traveling through time or kill as many of the race as possible, and wipe that race of monsters from the world forever.

The 3 of 5 characters were too heroic to turn this down. Even if the Players would have preferred not to let the characters die. So really they felt as if there was no choice. The one character who would have preferred not to go down fighting, wasn't designed to be able to get out by herself. So instead of trying at that small chance of safety, she fell with the others- peer pressured into doing it.

Ogres have never existed in my world, they were destroyed before they ever arrived. (choice of kobolds, ogres, ratmen, or goblins) by 7th level characters no less. As a byproduct the characters never became famous for their deeds, because they had also written themselves (mostly) out of history.