cold spell in a cold land... why?

Nifft

Penguin Herder
One thought in favor of "theme": if you're dealing with another [Cold] critter, you're probably almost friendly. A frost giant fighting a white wyrm is going to look more like a wrestling match than a death match.

It's when you fight those icky, alien, horrid [Fire] critters that you'd bring out the big guns... the big cold guns. Against a red wyrm, shoot to kill.

-- N
 

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painandgreed

First Post
I think it works. First, I think that the normal antagonists of cold based creatures are going to be normal creatures rather than other cold based creatures. Most conflict would come during the winters when the cold based creatures can venture farther south and raid the lands of plenty. Second, if they had fire based stuff verus cold creatures, then they'd be doing extra damage versus stuff that is doing less damage to them, but when facing fire using creatures, they'd be taking extra damage verus doing less damage. If using cold based weapons and spells, they'd be doing normal damage to cold based creatures and extra damage to things that are doing extra damage to them. That keeps everything equal at all times rather than being at a disadvantage half the time. However, given an intelligent opponent with the means and materials to also have a fire based weapon, I might say they have one for times of war verus their own kind that could be brought out if needed.
 

green slime

First Post
Jolly Giant said:
I was wondering the same thing and started that thread Tarchon posted a link to. To me, the responses were shocking. (Check it out!) I've never seen so much anger and outrage on these boards before. Appearantly following the "theme" is a very sacred cow to a lot of people and anyone who thinks differently deserve to be roasted on a spit for all eternity. Suggesting that an azer sorcerer could have at least have some offensive spells that doesn't deal fire damage or that magic weapons wielded by frostgiant doesn't all have to be frost weapons seems to be the ultimate in blasphemy to a lot of people...

Here he goes, spreading blatant lies again.

Please, do go read the other thread.
 

Kesh

First Post
To be honest, if you're a creature of a certain subtype, do you really want to be carrying an item that will almost certainly hurt you?

A creature of the Cold subtype carrying around a flaming broadsword is either stupid or insane. About like a lycanthrope carrying around a silver weapon: you might find it useful when fighting other lycanthropes, but if you get disarmed, you're probably going to die by your own blade.

Secondly, what about minions? If your minions are immune to Cold effects, and they're fighting adventurers, smack the area with a cone of cold. Only the adventurers will be hurt. Tossing a fireball would be a tactical blunder. You might be able to argue that they would know fireball and simply metamagic it to do Cold damage... but that feat & spell slot could be used in more effective ways.
 

tarchon

First Post
Kesh said:
To be honest, if you're a creature of a certain subtype, do you really want to be carrying an item that will almost certainly hurt you?
"It could hurt me" is generally not considered to be a major drawback to a weapon.
 

Sejs

First Post
Well, depends if you have the option of being immune to said weapon or not.

Normal guy carrying a gun: it could hurt me, but so can everything else.

Guy who is immune to melee weapons, but can be hurt by bullets carrying a gun: gee, this gun sure is handy for shooting stuff, but it certainly would suck if I lost hold of it, what with bullets being my main vulnerability and all.
 

Berandor

lunatic
Kesh said:
To be honest, if you're a creature of a certain subtype, do you really want to be carrying an item that will almost certainly hurt you?

A creature of the Cold subtype carrying around a flaming broadsword is either stupid or insane. About like a lycanthrope carrying around a silver weapon: you might find it useful when fighting other lycanthropes, but if you get disarmed, you're probably going to die by your own blade.

Secondly, what about minions? If your minions are immune to Cold effects, and they're fighting adventurers, smack the area with a cone of cold. Only the adventurers will be hurt. Tossing a fireball would be a tactical blunder. You might be able to argue that they would know fireball and simply metamagic it to do Cold damage... but that feat & spell slot could be used in more effective ways.
Why is it always fire that gets thrown out? What about electricity, sonic, acid effects? Force spells, keen weapons, etc.? Just because the frost giant isn't equipped with a frost weapon doesn't necessarily mean he uses a fire weapon instead.

Though I agree about the minion benefit.
 


takyris

First Post
I understand that this is a minor thread hijack, but I was thinking of how I'd deal with this question given giants in my own world, and I actually felt it would work out well. Giants in my world are played with slightly different flavor text, generally created in what, in my own warped mindset, passes for realistic consequences of the existing creatures.

See, in my world, giants are polite. Really polite. By giant standards. They're big creatures that take up a lot of space, use a lot of resources, and can dish out an absurd amount of damage. Any group of giants together has to be pretty polite, because they all need so much food that they either have to work out agreements about who hunts down deer and who goes after the bears or whatever, or else they run out of food pretty rapidly. Unless D&D giants have magical metabolisms or some other magical wonkiness (like, say, if a cloud/storm giant could take a normal-sized chicken-wing and hold it and immediately turn it into a gigantic chicken-wing by his inherent giant-y magic, which makes him and anything he eats magically big), they need to cooperate in order to maintain the cultures that their descriptions say they have.

So, giants in my world have pretty restrictive etiquette. They are required to offer a visiting giant hospitality (although said giant must not despoil their land or hurt their ability to gather food). They must follow proper forms when making a play for power. In fact, given giants' general bloodthirsty and combat-happy natures, I built some restrictive customs into most giant social functions. For example, when I, as a giant, meet another giant, my appropriate greeting is, when translated into common, "I choose not to kill you at this time." This is usually followed by compliments to the other giant, noting how strong he looks, what fine armor he is wearing, and how difficult the fight would be if I decided to kill him -- although I would undoubtedly prevail.

The other giant politely disagrees, noting that I am massively thewed and wielding well-crafted weapons, but that he would anticipate victory going to him should it come to blows. Once it is established that we both feel confident in our victories but have agreed not to kill each other, we can get down to business and trade or share gossip or whatever.

In such a culture, it is perfectly natural that the cold and frosty weapons we Frost Giants use to help us hunt game would be our primary weapons. If we did decide to fight another Frost Giant, such a contest would either be unarmed or using Frost weapons that really didn't do much. Using a Flaming weapon would be, beyond the obvious discomfort I would likely suffer, an obvious indication that I consider myself too weak to fight another Frost giant with only my own strength and prowess. I might have a flaming weapon hidden somewhere, for use when we hunt white dragons or when the tribe agrees that one of our number has committed some truly egregious crime and has refused to pay the blood-debt to the victim's family -- such a weapon is a tool of war or execution, however, and by no means my normal weapon.

If I were fighting a Fire Giant, however, our customs are different enough that I would likely be fine using a Frost weapon, just as he would be fine using a Flaming weapon. The weapons, extensions of our natures, would be considered perfectly justifiable in honorable combat, and would not cast any doubt over the prowess of the victor.

I didn't design this world with "Frost giants use frost weapons" in mind, but it certainly fits into my world without trouble. Possibly just convenient flavor text, but it works for me.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
takyris said:
Unless D&D giants have magical metabolisms or some other magical wonkiness

IMC Giants do have really slow metabolism and like an Anaconda can eat a whole whole deerl and then spend weeks digesting it (and not eating anything else). This means that Giants IMC don't eat much more than the average human, however they do sleep a lot more (minimum 12 hours for spell recovery and fatigue purposes), thus creating the perfect opportunity for Adventurers to rob and/or slay them.


This is usually followed by compliments to the other giant, noting how strong he looks, what fine armor he is wearing, and how difficult the fight would be if I decided to kill him -- although I would undoubtedly prevail.

The other giant politely disagrees, noting that I am massively thewed and wielding well-crafted weapons, but that he would anticipate victory going to him should it come to blows. Once it is established that we both feel confident in our victories but have agreed not to kill each other, we can get down to business and trade or share gossip or whatever.

This is kewl - I thnk I'm gonna use it (*YOINK*) and presents a good rationale on why frost giants use frost weapons too - anything else would be weak and dishonourable.
 

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