D&D (2024) Comeliness and Representation in Recent DnD Art

[Gradine]

People seem to be blurring the line of fantasy and reality a bit too much in modern escapism.

This I think is the reason for the biggest stick point here. IME, anyway, young people, marginalized people, when they flock to TTRPGs, they aren't there for "escapism" at all. For them us (and here I will cast my lot with them; I might as well be a youngin compared to many of the folks here), role-playing isn't a space to forget about the horrors of the real world for a few hours; it's a space to confront and defeat those horrors. There's a huge appeal there to that demographic for exactly that reason; especially for those who feel the most powerless to create change in the world around them. And I suppose that is escapism of a type; an escape to where the world's greatest injustices can be confronted and solved. But that's not the same thing as pretending the issues of the real world simply don't exist at all.

 

[LesserThan]

In general, I think the ttrpg audience is likely very different than many people would assume.

I have a lot of colleagues and friends from the military (or military-adjacent careers) who play ttrpgs.

Yes there are. Military personnel has always been a large audience for TRPGs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This I think is the reason for the biggest stick point here. IME, anyway, young people, marginalized people, when they flock to TTRPGs, they aren't there for "escapism" at all. For them us (and here I will cast my lot with them; I might as well be a youngin compared to many of the folks here), role-playing isn't a space to forget about the horrors of the real world for a few hours; it's a space to confront and defeat those horrors. There's a huge appeal there to that demographic for exactly that reason; especially for those who feel the most powerless to create change in the world around them. And I suppose that is escapism of a type; an escape to where the world's greatest injustices can be confronted and solved. But that's not the same thing as pretending the issues of the real world simply don't exist at all.

Do RPGs have to be designed with that second thing in mind though? Is there a way to thread that needle do both desires are met?

 

[Gradine]

Do RPGs have to be designed with that second thing in mind though? Is there a way to thread that needle do both desires are met?

I would argue that most do. The holdup seems to be a complete rejection of any elements (in this case, art) that so much as acknowledge the second thing.

Though I mean, if you've got some people complaining about something breaking their sense of realism, and other people complaining about the exact same thing breaking their escapism, I'm not sure how closer to the eye of the needle you can thread.

 

[LesserThan]

. For them us (and here I will cast my lot with them; I might as well be a youngin compared to many of the folks here), role-playing isn't a space to forget about the horrors of the real world for a few hours; it's a space to confront and defeat those horrors.

What? That is not what escapism means! Nor why many oeople played D&D for many of its 50 years.

Vacations to Disney World are escapism entertainment, as are movies.

Nothing about horrors, often just R&R, get out of the rut of day to day life.

I can not even further respond to the rest of what you said right now due to time of day, and I need to think how to frame things if you are using TRPG for some sort of PTSD therapy and not just playing a game, the G in TRPG.



EDIT, fixed my cropping and bolding error of the quoted post to re-add the end on the bolded sentence. Lost context because my fat fingers removed too much.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Half elf or orc, silly and pointless. I stand by that.

You're entitled to your opinion on half-races when it comes to elves and orcs, but they too can be important when it comes to representation. As such WotC is unlikely to erase them from their worlds.

1. Realism, fantasy game, not real. Who cares?
2. Representation, fantasy game, not real. Who cares?

People care. People who play this game.
Real people, in the real world.
That's who cares.

Also apparently: You.
Since you have spent a fair amount of words on the subject even before I started posting.

I am not interested in RPPUNDIT simulation games. If I wanted "real", I could do that Society re-eanctors medieval fighting stuff instead of playing a tabletop game where my fat ass in sitting comfortably in my wheelchair. To repeat what I said earlier to Charlequin, I told her, I have zero interest in "being represented" or FORCED to have my character in a wheelchair in game. If anyone offered me a wheelchair character in a game I would be grandma unfriendly words well beyond being offended by it.

I want characters and art that depict the FANTASY world, not this one.

Things burn down when Bessie kicks over the lamp, I better not see any firetrucks sirens blaring coming to put the barn out.

That is the first time I have seen anyone even imply that people be forced to play characters with the same complications that they have. Are you engaging in hyperbole, or do I have someone on ignore?

You don't want to play a character in a wheelchair? Good for you! That is fine; no one is suggesting that you have to. The existence of wheelchairs in the setting doesn't requite you to play a character who is in one.
There are people other than you in this hobby however, and they have different preferences. Some of them want to play characters who do use a wheelchair, or need glasses, or whatever other part of diverse representation offends you so. Both WotC and many other D&D players want those people to feel comfortable within the hobby.
Now, to be blunt, I doubt that we'll see more than one person in a wheelchair in the D&D 2024 PHB art, if even that. But I hope there will be diversity depicted in attractiveness, skin tone, gender, and other factors that may have traditionally been excluded.

People seem to be blurring the line of fantasy and reality a bit too much in modern escapism.

. . . Its . . . escapism. For people.
All people.

 

[Vaalingrade]

This I think is the reason for the biggest stick point here. IME, anyway, young people, marginalized people, when they flock to TTRPGs, they aren't there for "escapism" at all. For them us (and here I will cast my lot with them; I might as well be a youngin compared to many of the folks here), role-playing isn't a space to forget about the horrors of the real world for a few hours; it's a space to confront and defeat those horrors. There's a huge appeal there to that demographic for exactly that reason; especially for those who feel the most powerless to create change in the world around them. And I suppose that is escapism of a type; an escape to where the world's greatest injustices can be confronted and solved. But that's not the same thing as pretending the issues of the real world simply don't exist at all.

As someone who is also comparatively young, I don't see this all that often.

It's more of the old heads that want to make people face D&D's love affairs with slavery, bigotry and sexual violence.

I've not once seen someone play a teifling with the intention to be discriminated against in-game.

 

[LesserThan]

That is the first time I have seen anyone even imply that people be forced to play characters with the same complications that they have. Are you engaging in hyperbole, or do I have someone on ignore?

When the D&D wheelchair came out, there was some adventure book that required wheelchair ramps in dungeons, publushed by WotC.

So forced representation of wheelchairs was included by the makers of D&D, because 1 person demanded it for everyone else. Even though it made no sense as her wheelchair can scale sheer cliffs and does not need ramps.
___________________________
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/escapism

escapism​

 noun​

es·cap·ism i-ˈskā-ˌpi-zəm
: habitual diversion of the mind to purely imaginative activity or entertainment as an escape from reality or routine

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

What? That is not what escapism means! Nor why many oeople played D&D for many of its 50 years.

That is literally what escapism means. And its why lots of people play D&D and other RPGs.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

When the D&D wheelchair came out, there was some adventure book that required wheelchair ramps in dungeons, publushed by WotC.

So forced representation of wheelchairs was included by the makers of D&D, because 1 person demanded it for everyone else. Even though it made no sense as her wheelchair can scale sheer cliffs and does not need ramps.

Someone though logically said that a dungeon might have ramps, if it was built by workers who were required to move heavy loads around.