[Complete Divine] Radiant Servant of Pelor is too powerful.

[Ridley's Cohort]

Being forced to stay within a very short distance of someone sounds like a drawback to me area of effect spells, and similar types (all targets within X distance), are very common. Spreading out is often a very good option in combat.. being forced to stay very close together can get very hindersome very fast.

Drawback is the wrong word to use. It is a limitation on a bonus. A bonus, however limited, is never a drawback.

IME spreading out is a nice idea, but I do not get to do that as often as I would like. In real play I would expect to reap that +2 bonus the majority of the time whether I would like to or nor.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Obviously with one RSOP in the party all undead except the most powerful of the powerful are jokes.

Not really. Ever look at how many HD even mid CR zombies and skeletons have? Ditto for Dread Wraiths, Nightshades, Nightwalkers, and Nightcrawlers (though they actually do qualify as powerful undead). Pretty much any undead creature advanced by HD will be out of the range of all but the most turning maximized cleric.

Any vampire or lich designed to be a boss monster will be toast only if he'd be toast anyway (which is to say, if the cleric has a phylactery of undead turning and uses his greater turning ability).

How much is this worth in the "average" campaign? Or Martial Proficiency? How painful are the prerequisites typically? Etc.

In sum, RSOP does seem very powerful. Many bonuses, few drawbacks. And who said +2 to will saves within 10 feet is fluff? Morale bonuses to will saves are VERY hard to come by (not simply a bard's bonus vs. fear!), and if the party keeps 2-3 pc's within 10' of the RSOP most of the time -- that +2 will save bonus will "make or break" a PC within 3-4 saves. Remember, +2 to will save is a feat. Giving everything within 10' a stackable feat, for an important save, is...well.. not fluff. It "WILL SAVE" a party member rather quickly, ha ha.

Will saves are good but you're dramatically understating the number of places to get a morale bonus to will saves:

vs. fear:
Halfling, paladin aura of courage, Cloak of Bravery (Complete Warrior)

vs. enchantments:
Holy Liberator aura of resolve

in general:
Hero's Feast (+1), Heroism (+2), Good Hope (+2), Greater Heroism (+4)

That's more than a few sources of morale bonusses, some of which (heroism, hero's feast) are quite common at mid to high levels.

 

[ForceUser]

The thread that wouldn't die.

The Aura of Resolve is potent for the fact that - whoever else may or may not be within the radius - the RSoP is always within that radius. It's a freebie +2 to his Will save that stacks with Iron Will. Just another thing to make him that much more potent.

I think my biggest problem with the RSoP is that the illustrations used both in the CD and Dragon magazine incarnations suggest a back-rank, lightly-armored class, and that is blatantly false. My RSoP wore +3 full plate & a +2 heavy shield. With my typical quickened divine favor & righteous might spell buffs going he easily outdamaged the party fighter.

But that's a base cleric issue, not a RS issue. My point is that on top of retaining all the great benefits of a standard cleric, my character had freebie RS stuff too. All he lost was an average of 1 hit point per level, which can be easily made up in magical gear.

There's no real downside to playing this class, so it's overpowered. A RSoP in my campaign will be 7/10 on caster levels, will not gain martial weapon proficiency, will not gain a third domain, and will gain only a single Extra Greater Turning per day. And it'll still be a fantastic class.

 

[The Souljourner]

Giving a cleric +2 to his will saves is like giving a dwarven barbarian +2 to his saves versus poison. He's already going to pass 95% of the time, so another +2 isn't going to do much.

Seriously... what cleric doesn't have by FAR the best will save in the party already? And so what if it stacks with iron will? Who in their right mind takes Iron Will as a cleric?

And yes, the 10' radius makes it pretty worthless most of the time. Ever had a paladin in the party? I have, and I can tell you, we never manage to stay inside that aura... maybe one person, most of the time...

Yes, there is no real downside, but the upsides are minor enough that I don't think it matters. How often is Greater Turning going to be better than a regular turning and 3 rounds of bashing on cowering undead? Heck, most of the time we gloss over that to save game time, since there's pretty much no way we won't just kill them given a little time.

-The Souljourner

 

[Scion]

Having two of your domains picked out for you ahead of time sounds like a pretty good sized drawback as well

Also, while limitation may be a better word the point still stands, it is an ability where you trade getting a +2 will save bonus sometimes in exchange for getting slapped by area of effect spells. With people having mounts keeping even most of the party within that radius may be very difficult indeed.

Personally, I'd rather stay away from the group doing that.. slightly lower will save, but I am not in the target zone for all kinds of spells.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

The thread that wouldn't die.

Apparently not.

There's no real downside to playing this class, so it's overpowered. A RSoP in my campaign will be 7/10 on caster levels, will not gain martial weapon proficiency, will not gain a third domain, and will gain only a single Extra Greater Turning per day. And it'll still be a fantastic class.

Let me know if you have any takers. I wouldn't touch that kind of a "prestige" class with a ten foot pole. If it lost even one cast level, I would probably stay away from the Radiant Servant as written. Losing three, it would be like Order of the Bow Initiate or the Shining Blade of Heironeous: yet another prestige class that's not as powerful as the core class (or classes) it's designed for.

 

[The Souljourner]

Yeah, losing 3 caster levels and crappier hitpoints for what, one extra greater turning and some fluff? That's total crappage. Why would anyone ever play that instead of cleric?

Scion has a good point in that in order to take the PrC you *have* to take Sun domain (really crappy spells, decent but not superb granted power) and you need healing domain (just barely better than not taking a second domain at all) to use one of the main powers.

I agree with Elder-Basilisk... if the prestige class isn't even as good as the base class, then no one but the most die-hard roleplayer will ever take the class.

Not having a downside does not automatically make a PrC overpowered. Also, we've stated plenty of downsides to the RSoP.

I'm going to be playing one with better than party average stats in our weekly game. I'll let you all know how it fairs, and if we think it's overpowered.

-The Souljourner

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'll agree with you on the healing domain but Sun is a strong domain.

It's first and second level spells aren't too impressive but, Searing Light, Fire Shield (much more effective for clerics than wizards since clerics have the hit points to take a few hits), Flame Strike, Fire Seeds, and Prismatic Sphere are quite impressive. Sumbeam and Sunburst are AMAZING in the right situation too (even if they're only moderately useful otherwise).

There aren't a lot of domains with better spells.

Scion has a good point in that in order to take the PrC you *have* to take Sun domain (really crappy spells, decent but not superb granted power) and you need healing domain (just barely better than not taking a second domain at all) to use one of the main powers.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

What does a cleric of Pelor even NEED with martial weapon proficiency anyway?!?!? Their deity's chosen weapon is a freakin' MACE!! That ability should go into "File 13".

And if you don't care too much about those bookoo amounts of turn attempts you get at higher levels of the class, then you could take Domain Spontaneity and use the turn attempts to turn regular cleric spells into your chosen domain(s) spells. But that's assuming that you don't face alot of undead.

But it does get boring to be nothing but a "walking healing battery"..... That's why alot of people I see on the boards REFUSE to play clerics in the first place!

 

[Darth K'Trava]

I'll agree with you on the healing domain but Sun is a strong domain.

It's first and second level spells aren't too impressive but, Searing Light, Fire Shield (much more effective for clerics than wizards since clerics have the hit points to take a few hits), Flame Strike, Fire Seeds, and Prismatic Sphere are quite impressive. Sumbeam and Sunburst are AMAZING in the right situation too (even if they're only moderately useful otherwise).

There aren't a lot of domains with better spells.

The Sun domain kicks major arse!! It's one of the better domains out there. So are some of the spells of the Strength domain (not to mention that kickin' ability! ) Try to find a mid-level cleric who DOESN'T cast spells such as Searing Light and Flame Strike!! Dare ya! I've yet to have seen any cleric NOT cast those spells. I had one cleric who LOVED to throw around Flame Strikes like nobody's business!! She was only so-so at times in the turning dept (average CHA score and 4-level loss from multiclassing) but she was kick butt in the combat department!