D&D 4E Completed 4e Druid (Updated 7/11, New Items; More Versatile)

malcolm_n

Adventurer

All very good points. Thank you for pointing that out. My hope was to make the druid's tanking ability just under the fighter's since he can have offensive abilities with the change of a form. As it is from your post, I have missed my mark here.

A defensive druid at level 1 should have (assuming choice stats in key areas) approximately 1 less AC than a fighter but a +1 to attacks (compared). maybe if the proficiency bonuses of weapons carried over to your wild shape form? Then the druid could use the dagger both in and out of wild shape (whichever form) and still get his +3 to attack. He'll do a bit less damage than a fighter, but it shouldn't be severe.

Okay, here's a hotfix for your level 1 defensive druid, and I'll include it in my next update.
1) All druids have Proficiency 3 to attacks while in wild shape.
2) Offensive form gives +2 AC and +1d6 damage with combat advantage (+1d6 at 11 and 21) instead of +1 to attack and Str to damage with Combat Advantage.
3) Tear's Hit should read: "1[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target is marked and takes a -1 penalty to attack you until the start of your next turn."
4) Pack tactic's effect should read: "The target is marked by you and takes an additional 1[W] + Strength modifier damage."

What's your opinion on making the base wild-shape forms at-will? It wouldn't harm the later powers since all of them are encounter/daily and a character who takes rites focus is already sacrificing plenty by being able to only deal 1d4 damage in wild shape as opposed to 1d6/1d10. It'd make them as versatile as a wizard, I think.
 

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malcolm_n

Adventurer
@PYRO
cool, definitely will update GO for the Eyes then.
Vigor is Mass Cure Light Wounds at 16. Agreed on call storm, consider its burst 1 lower than the wizard's burst spells around that level (i think that'd be 4, but don't quote me, it's late).
Flexibility is good and allows design space later on or even other builds/powers (like the illusionist wizard); but i don't want to be able to make an all druid party, either. 2 druids is really pushing it and will likely be a huge problem with hybrids in general. I'd rather keep stuff available for the shaman, barbarian, and whatever other primal classes there may be.
 
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Eyada

First Post
Okay, here's a hotfix for your level 1 defensive druid, and I'll include it in my next update.
1) All druids have Proficiency 3 to attacks while in wild shape.
2) Offensive form gives +2 AC and +1d6 damage with combat advantage (+1d6 at 11 and 21) instead of +1 to attack and Str to damage with Combat Advantage.
3) Tear's Hit should read: "1[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target is marked and takes a -1 penalty to attack you until the start of your next turn."
4) Pack tactic's effect should read: "The target is marked by you and takes an additional 1[W] + Strength modifier damage."

Thanks. This should help immensely.

"#3) Tear's Hit should read: "1[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target is marked" isn't necessary for a Defensive Druid because Defensive form already makes all of his attacks mark enemies; however, if you're including that to help out Offensive form, I understand.

Concerning Wild Shape: Does the line "You can only use Wild Shape once per encounter, but you can change form freely while you maintain it" mean that you can switch between Offensive and Defensive form? I thought it meant you can change what animal form you are currently in. (ie, Initially transform into a bear, and then turn into a mountain goat when using Stomp, and then turn back into a bear. You know, a cool descriptive effect with no mechanical impact.)

What's your opinion on making the base wild-shape forms at-will? It wouldn't harm the later powers since all of them are encounter/daily and a character who takes rites focus is already sacrificing plenty by being able to only deal 1d4 damage in wild shape as opposed to 1d6/1d10. It'd make them as versatile as a wizard, I think.
I'm not entirely sure, but it doesn't seem like it would be too bad. A Rites focus Druid probably wouldn't have very many Wild powers to use while Wild Shaped anyway, so briefly giving up his ability to cast spells (his primary focus) seems like a fair trade for a brief burst of Defensive/melee capability. This would also help out "Shifter" Druids, as they would never find themselves completely incapable of contributing to a fight. (Due to not being able to Wild Shape to use their Wild powers.)
 

malcolm_n

Adventurer
Yes on the tear. It's to help the defensive druid while in offensive form in case he wants to dish out some damage before tanking. It also helps an offensive druid who plans to sometimes have to pick up stuff on the fly.

As it is written now, you cannot switch forms unless you have a power that allows you to. Such powers are those which say ,"This power counts as..." If it counts as offensive form, you change to offensive form regardless of what you were in before.

But, that's not going to matter. Playtest your druid with wild-shape at-will and see how it works out compared.
 

malcolm_n

Adventurer
Updated with the above in mind. No items yet, mostly because I'm stumped on what to do if anything at all. Any ideas?

dcviana, if you're around at all, please can you update the PHBish version you did? I cannot get that copy you sent to open. Thank you.
 
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HugeOgre

First Post
Malcolm - A couple of other threads about 4th edition eventually led a group of us to create a wiki for the various ideas surrounding an implementation of the druid class.

Do we have your permission to copy and paste the text you presented here into the wiki for incorporation / discussion?

The link to the wiki page is here.
 


King-Panda

First Post
(First off, forgive me for not putting these questions in a spoiler box to save space, I don't know how to do that.)

Hey malcolm, I've been following this homebrew since conception and wanted to give my thanks for making such an awesome class. I'm going to be playing in an 11th level campaign in a few weeks, and I whipped up an offensive Wildshape druid overnight. Between all the different erratas and updates, I have a bunch of questions, and I would really appreciate any feedback you can give me.

My Druid is using a +3 Shortsword (with the bonus wep. prof. from Offensive Focus) for melee attacks. In my offensive form, what will my attack and damage be? Do I get the +3 wep. prof. from the shortsword? Do I get some kind of natural/unarmed wep. prof. too/instead? Do I deal normal medium sized unarmed damage (1d4), or normal shortsword damage (1d6) on basic attacks? What about with powers that deal [W] damage?

If I were to take the Wild Shape: Magic power and the Large Form Feat, would there be any way I could have both running at once (To be large size as well as use item powers)?

If Wildshaping is an encounter stance power, can I change back and forth from normal shape to wildshaped? How about from Defensive Form to Offensive form (or magic/large/huge/small/tiny form)? If it is a move action to use the power, is it a move action to change shape or Off/Def Form while the power is active?

When in Wildshape, I believe I get the enhancement bonuses from magical items, but not their powers. What about their effects/properties (i.e. Horned Helm's Property: Your charge attacks deal an extra 1d6 damage, and Magic weapons bonus damage on crits)?

If I'm playing a race different than medium-sized, do my wildshapes default to medium size?

In offensive form, I deal +2d6 extra damage when I have combat advantage. Is this all you get for offensive form? This seems underpowered, but I could very easily be wrong.

Most of the wild powers have a range of "Melee Touch". I assume this means any creature within reach, correct?

The Attack powers Pounce and Trample are listed as having a range of "Melee 1". What exactly does this mean, and how does it differ from "Melee touch"?

The Attack power "Cat and Mouse" lists that it does "repeat damage once if target moves or shifts away from you this turn". Is that damage dealt before they move, or after they move 1 square (Immed. Interrupt vs Immed. Reaction)?

The Attack power Pummel's range is listed simply as "Melee". Is this a typo, and if not, how does it differ from "melee touch" and "melee 1"?

The Utility 6 Tree Shape power brings to mind a million questions. What exactly does "Count" as a large tree mean? How big/tall/heavy is it? Can you move? Can you attack? If you stop moving, do you get the stealth bonus back? How do people notice that you are a fake tree? There are many more, but I actually don't care if you answer these, because I don't plan on using it. But I wanted to point them out to you in case you felt like redoing this power. Maybe it could be like the other Wild Shape powers, something like....

Wild Shape: Foliage
At Will * Primal, Polymorph, Stance
Move Action Personal
Effect: You change shape into some kind of plant. You gain a (?) bonus
to stealth checks while standing still and trying to act like a plant. You can use your roots to move one square as a move action, but you cannot shift or attack.

I have no idea what I'm doing with this power, as I have no experience with making them/making them balanced. Just throwing out an idea. Honestly, I don't like the idea of it giving a stealth bonus, simply because I can't see someone beating the stealth check and "noticing" the plant was fake. How? In any case, there's my thoughts.

Is there a reason why Whipping Tail's damage is set at 3d8 instead of 3[W]?

Does Stoneskin apply versus all weapons (anything wielded in a physical melee/ranged attack)? Does it apply against magical weapons? What about conjured magic force or ethereal/insubstantial weapons? Also, It is listed as stance power. Even though it says it can be used while in wildshape form, all the wildshape powers are stance powers as well, so wouldn't it replace the Wildshape?

Sky Marshal Paragon Path questions:

Fly-By Attack grants the ability to use standard actions before, during, or after your movement. You can use your standard, move, and minor actions in any order normally, so wouldn't this only grant the ability to use it during your movement? Would it be overpowered if it simply granted both this bonus and the bonus +1 to all movement speeds?

I find Screeching Descent's penalty to Perception oddly-placed and possibly underpowered. Would replacing the perception penalty with "dazed (save ends)" be overpowered?

Hummingbird Strike has the same stance keyword clash with wildshape that Stoneskin does. Wouldn't they cancel each other out?

I've mostly only posted questions about powers I've chosen, and I have yet to even look at any power beyond 11th level. You have done an amazing job with the project, and you should feel proud with what you've done. Again, any input on these would be awesome.
 

malcolm_n

Adventurer
Here we go
[sblock=answers]
(First off, forgive me for not putting these questions in a spoiler box to save space, I don't know how to do that.)

Hey malcolm, I've been following this homebrew since conception and wanted to give my thanks for making such an awesome class. I'm going to be playing in an 11th level campaign in a few weeks, and I whipped up an offensive Wildshape druid overnight. Between all the different erratas and updates, I have a bunch of questions, and I would really appreciate any feedback you can give me.
Thank you, no problem at all.
My Druid is using a +3 Shortsword (with the bonus wep. prof. from Offensive Focus) for melee attacks. In my offensive form, what will my attack and damage be? Do I get the +3 wep. prof. from the shortsword? Do I get some kind of natural/unarmed wep. prof. too/instead? Do I deal normal medium sized unarmed damage (1d4), or normal shortsword damage (1d6) on basic attacks? What about with powers that deal [W] damage?
Assuming you have a strength of 22-23 at 11th level, You would hit on 17 (yes to prof bonus) and deal 1d6 + 11 damage with a basic attack in offensive form with +2d6 Sneak attack when you have combat advantage. X[W] = your short sword damage.
If I were to take the Wild Shape: Magic power and the Large Form Feat, would there be any way I could have both running at once (To be large size as well as use item powers)?
Not until you get Wild Shape: Chimera; because they're both stances. It's a balance factor, but also why I made Travel form an augment and not a wild shape power.
If Wildshaping is an encounter stance power, can I change back and forth from normal shape to wildshaped? How about from Defensive Form to Offensive form (or magic/large/huge/small/tiny form)? If it is a move action to use the power, is it a move action to change shape or Off/Def Form while the power is active?
You can assume Regular Defensive or Offensive form as a move action at-will from any form you're already in. When you get wild shape: Magic, You can enter Wild shape as a minor action once per encounter from any form you're already in and still use item powers. This is true for any wild shape power, feat or otherwise.
When in Wildshape, I believe I get the enhancement bonuses from magical items, but not their powers. What about their effects/properties (i.e. Horned Helm's Property: Your charge attacks deal an extra 1d6 damage, and Magic weapons bonus damage on crits)?
Specifically, all gear functions as normal regardless of the form you take. The only limit on items is they don't have the "Wild" keyword, so you have to use Wild shape: Magic to use their powers. Yes, you do get any properties; which helps greatly for item selection later on.
If I'm playing a race different than medium-sized, do my wildshapes default to medium size?
yes, but you still cannot wield a two-handed weapon and get no bonus from versatile weapons since your normal form doesn't. All items function in wild shape as they would normally for your character :) (not to sound redundant, it's just something I've seen done when others write faqs and it helps if you glance over some parts to repeat some information).
In offensive form, I deal +2d6 extra damage when I have combat advantage. Is this all you get for offensive form? This seems underpowered, but I could very easily be wrong.
You get that +2d6 with ALL attacks when you have combat advantage, not just once per round, like the rogue. You're also only limited by your choice in weapon, instead of a subset of weapons. So you could use a greataxe and get the bonus. 30th level damage for an offensive focus druid evens out right around the rogue, with less potent powers to use it.
Most of the wild powers have a range of "Melee Touch". I assume this means any creature within reach, correct?
Indeed, per the PHB (i think, could be DMG); keep in mind a reach weapon lets you become an animal with really long arms (like a gorilla)
The Attack powers Pounce and Trample are listed as having a range of "Melee 1". What exactly does this mean, and how does it differ from "Melee touch"?
No matter what weapon you use, you have to be next to the target you're attacking.
The Attack power "Cat and Mouse" lists that it does "repeat damage once if target moves or shifts away from you this turn". Is that damage dealt before they move, or after they move 1 square (Immed. Interrupt vs Immed. Reaction)?
Interrupt the creature's movement and hit them. It's a fighter type ability and I just copied it straight out. sorry for no clarification
The Attack power Pummel's range is listed simply as "Melee". Is this a typo, and if not, how does it differ from "melee touch" and "melee 1"?
Typo, melee touch
The Utility 6 Tree Shape power brings to mind a million questions. What exactly does "Count" as a large tree mean? How big/tall/heavy is it? Can you move? Can you attack? If you stop moving, do you get the stealth bonus back? How do people notice that you are a fake tree? There are many more, but I actually don't care if you answer these, because I don't plan on using it. But I wanted to point them out to you in case you felt like redoing this power. Maybe it could be like the other Wild Shape powers, something like....

Wild Shape: Foliage
At Will * Primal, Polymorph, Stance
Move Action Personal
Effect: You change shape into some kind of plant. You gain a (?) bonus
to stealth checks while standing still and trying to act like a plant. You can use your roots to move one square as a move action, but you cannot shift or attack.
This one always makes me laugh because everybody overcomplicates it so easily. No offense, it's just interesting.
1) Tree form is not a wild shape power; you can change into it only when not in wild shape.
2) You are in all ways a large tree (except with sentience)
3) You take up a 2x2 square as per large size
4) You get a +10 to stealth checks
5) If you move or somebody beats your stealth, you revert out of tree form. You can enter it again next round for whatever good it would do you.
6) You can attack, but as per stealth, that gives you away so you only have combat advantage for that one attack unless you're flanking
7) It's mostly a true to heart utility as there's only certain times you'd use it in combat to get advantage for a round. Mostly, I could see it as a great way to guard while your party rests. You can also let your party climb 10 feet without a ladder.
I have no idea what I'm doing with this power, as I have no experience with making them/making them balanced. Just throwing out an idea. Honestly, I don't like the idea of it giving a stealth bonus, simply because I can't see someone beating the stealth check and "noticing" the plant was fake. How? In any case, there's my thoughts.
The bonus stealth is mechanical more than fluff. You're not you, so how can others tell you're pulling their leg? Well, if you sneeze or twitch when there's no wind, that's a pretty good sign something's out of the ordinary.
Is there a reason why Whipping Tail's damage is set at 3d8 instead of 3[W]?
Mostly fluff. Usually you use your weapon with attacks, but suddenly you also grow a tail. The tail does static damage because you're probably not throwing that shortsword out behind you.
Does Stoneskin apply versus all weapons (anything wielded in a physical melee/ranged attack)? Does it apply against magical weapons? What about conjured magic force or ethereal/insubstantial weapons? Also, It is listed as stance power. Even though it says it can be used while in wildshape form, all the wildshape powers are stance powers as well, so wouldn't it replace the Wildshape?
Resist X weapons is a function of a lot of powers/monsters. Whatever it means with them holds true here. My assumption is anything that can be used with powers and the "weapon" keyword. From a monster perspective, any natural weapon like claw and bite.
Sky Marshal Paragon Path questions:

Fly-By Attack grants the ability to use standard actions before, during, or after your movement. You can use your standard, move, and minor actions in any order normally, so wouldn't this only grant the ability to use it during your movement? Would it be overpowered if it simply granted both this bonus and the bonus +1 to all movement speeds?
It's a redundancy used in a lot of rules text out thereto point out that it still functions normally, plus something else. if you don't think it's balanced enough by letting you move before and after an attack every round, +1 is fine. I caution though, it's a little more powerful than it may seem
I find Screeching Descent's penalty to Perception oddly-placed and possibly underpowered. Would replacing the perception penalty with "dazed (save ends)" be overpowered?
I suppose not, but it was meant to grant you help with stealth to get combat advantage. They achieve the same goal over all.
Hummingbird Strike has the same stance keyword clash with wildshape that Stoneskin does. Wouldn't they cancel each other out?
You can use Hummingbird strike while in Wild shape form, making it an addition while you continue to maintain your normal stance; like stoneskin. You couldn't use stoneskin and hummingbird strike at the same time without wild shape: Chimera.
I've mostly only posted questions about powers I've chosen, and I have yet to even look at any power beyond 11th level. You have done an amazing job with the project, and you should feel proud with what you've done. Again, any input on these would be awesome.
I do, thank you very much. Please don't hesitate to ask any other questions.
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eloquentaction

First Post
New stab at Druid...

malcolm_n -

I've been loving your druid class for a while now, but, being the bastard I am, I wanted to take a stab at updating it and seeing what I could come up with.

Attached is a PDF of just the first level Druid I came up with looking at your design and throwing in a few ideas of my own. EDIT: I had to zip the damned thing - it was just a hair too big for the attachments.

Please feel free to criticize my version as much as you like or to discount it all-together.

-- Hirahito
 

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