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CONTROVERSIAL QUESTION: Difficult Subject Matter.

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Celebrim

Legend
The question: In the event that a male Orc violently impregnated a female Dwarf against her will do you believe that dwarf would be more likely to terminate the pregnancy, and if not do you feel that the Orc child would be accepted as a member of an average clan by the clans leadership?

I really don't think that this is a question that can be answered as if there was one universal answer.

I'll answer the question in terms of my campaign to give you an idea why:

1) What's an orc? There are no orcs in my campaign world.
2) Dwarves aren't a fecund race. They don't breed half-breeds. They don't easily even breed with themselves.
3) As a result, Dwarves take parenthood very seriously. Any dwarf would be appalled at the idea of abortion; there just aren't enough Drawf pregnancies to go around terminating them. In the event that a Dwarf female was raped by a rival clan, the resulting pregnancy would not be regarded as dishonorable to the female but as evidence of the dishonor of the rival clan.
4) Dwarves believe that a person's parents are the people who raise the person. Adoption is a very serious matter among dwarf clans as well. A child whose father was absent, dead, or honorless would not be regarded as honorless provided that he or she was adopted into an honorable clan. A child inherits the honor of those that raise them, and those that raise the child recieve the honor (or disgrace) of the child. The absent honorless parent could not claim the child, because they have no right to the child's honor.
5) Anyone raised by a dwarf and adopted in to the clan by the clan chief is fully entitled to all the rights of a dwarf. (Pratchett and I agree on this aspect of Dwarf culture.) In the rare case of this being someone who wasn't born a dwarf, all effort to ignore the person's handicap at birth should be made and to find some honorable employment for the person suitable to what skill they have - just as you would for a Dwarf that was born blind or lame or whatever.

The question doesn't even come up in my campaign, and if it did I'm sure my Dwarfs would be appalled at the idea of a hybrid Dwarf crossed with their hated enemy the Goblins (interestingly, the Goblins would not be), but the above principles would at least in theory if not in practice guide their handling of what would be admittedly to all a very difficult problem. I can definately see that it would cause a huge and uncomfortable stir, but I just can't see the average honorable dwarf trying to get out of the mess by abortion. Note however that I'd think that they'd see the opposite situation, a half-dwarf born to a goblin female as being simply just a monster.
 

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Is reproductive management even an option? This is medieval medicine we're talking about. Sure there is magic, but a cure-light woulds isn't going to save someone with internal bleeding.

Then again, maybe the problem could be harmlessly cured with a simple remove disease or neutralize poison, without resorting to things like wire-hangers or jumping down stairs.

IMOHO this is exactly the sort of topic that I would feel very uncomfortable with if it came up at our gaming table. Rape and abortions are way too graphic, especially with certain types people.

1) Cure light wounds would almost certainly fix internal bleeding. Consider how many total hit points the average commoner has, CLW is a lot in comparison--it can heal a pretty severe injury to a commoner and it would certainly staunch the bleeding even if it couldn't fully heal the woman. I would expect a magical society to have far more developed surgery than the real world did because even the lowest level healing spell will stop the bleeding and over enough time fix most goofs.

2) Abortafecent approaches *DID* exist back then. They have to be used early but they do exist. RU-486 is simply a modern version of stuff that's been around a *LONG* time. Two data points: Ancient Egypt--they had such a plant until the demand for it drove it extinct something like 3000 BC. Traditional Chinese Medicine likewise has something. They claim the whole approach goes back 5000 years but I doubt all of their knowledge is really that old.
 

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
1) Cure light wounds would almost certainly fix internal bleeding.

proof: does CLW heal a bruise?-yes
is there a difference between a bruise and internal bleeding-no
CLW works on internal bleeding- simple.

2) Abortafecent approaches *DID* exist back then. They have to be used early but they do exist. RU-486 is simply a modern version of stuff that's been around a *LONG* time. Two data points: Ancient Egypt--they had such a plant until the demand for it drove it extinct something like 3000 BC. Traditional Chinese Medicine likewise has something. They claim the whole approach goes back 5000 years but I doubt all of their knowledge is really that old.

I personally do not doubt the age of their medicinal practices-but that is mostly opinion there.
 

Pergentile

Explorer
Answer to OP: It does not matter.
If it is NPC raping NPC, then the DM decides, since he creates the world itself, and everything in it.
If it is PC raping NPC, then it again depends on the NPC's the DM has made.
If it is NPC raping PC, then you are getting into some very unprecedented roleplaying. No player should have to deal with something like their character being raped. If they are fine with it, it isn't really rape then is it?
If it is PC raping PC, then you are getting into stuff that is very hard to determine, as some must be defined by the DM, but players also must make decisions. Again, if the victim is fine with it, its not rape.

If it is a DM asking how the forum thinks average dwarves think as far as unwanted/bastard/interracial children go, then I would say that the victim would probably suicide, and the community would support it, if not administer euthanasia.
 
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Water Bob

Adventurer
I have read the op and I must say that I have had some bizarre thing happen to my characters. A male fighter once got killed and rezed by a god call. came out of the cave a female. about 3 levels later was gang raped by the other two characters-by choice,no magical compelling- The dm rolled that she got prgnant and i had her take her sword and fall on it. as she died, she rolled off the cliff she had stood on. the others never were ever able to find her.

Damn, that's some harsh :):):):):).

I ran a Traveller game once where the PCs were slowly becoming psionic after a strange encounter with an alien species. They were viewing things in their family's past, generations and generations ago, via the data contained in their own cell structure (Dune style).

One player dreamed and woke up in a woman's body as she was raped by two ancient Egyptian soldiers.

It was a strange evening, as it was.
 

Visigani

Banned
Banned
Orcmul

Orcmuls are the result of the union of a pureblood orc and a dwarf. As the dwarven hatred of orcs is legendary only dwarf females have been known carriers of Orcmul as the notion of coupling with an orc female is anathema to all but the most depraved of dwarf males.

Nevertheless, such a child brings out the worst in the Dwarven people. The first victim is usually the mother as they are unable to reconcile their loyalty to their people and their intense hatred of the orcish race. Many would-be mothers of Orcmul take their own lives within days or weeks of conception, often encouraged by family and friends who rationalize the honor of slaying the thing inside the mother's belly as a self sacrificing path to redemption for the mother. Others end their lives simply because they cannot handle the knowledge of the horror growing within their bellies.

Despite the propensity for suicide among Orcmul mothers, outright abortion is culturally frowned upon. This is interesting in light of the fact that many dwarfs are open about their disdain, if not outright hatred for the child and not even the child's mother is immune to this, as she is often the worst offender. Child abuse among dwarven households is unheard of, save in the homes of Orcmul children. This is all the more traumatic for Orcmul as they are born with the dwarven love of clan and kin.

Growing up, even learning the language is difficult for the majority of Orcmuls as they are simply not acknowledged. It's difficult to learn to talk when nobody talks to you in anything other than screaming tearfilled rage. Because of this the overwhelming majority of Orcmuls are functionally illiterate. Orcmuls that speak anything other than rudimentry Common and Dwarven are rare.

One would hope that the Orcmul would be blessed with the finer traits of their Dwarven and Orcish heritage, that they would be immensely strong and virtually unkillable. Unfortunately this just isn't so. Orcmuls possess neither the Orcish strength nor the Dwarven constitution that help define both of those cultures. Instead Orcmuls tend to be clumsy, slow of mind, and incredibly ugly by either Orcish or Dwarven standards. As a final humiliation, Orcmuls, like their half-human Mul counterparts, are born hairless. They cannot grow beards. Coupled with the fact that they are often hideously disfigured as a result of the combination of orcish and dwarven traits, many Orcmuls choose to wear masks or full faced helms to hide their deeply felt ugliness and shame.

In light of all of this the Orcmul could have a heart of hate and not be faulted for it. They could be blackhearted and vicious, cruel and unkind and if one could not excuse their actions they could at least understand them. Yet, and perhaps this is why they are so reviled amongst the Dwarven people. Despite the pain and the torment, the abuse and the cruelty Orcmuls seem to be virtually unbreakable. Few, if any, are outright evil and almost none are chaotic. Strangely enough the overwhelming majority of Orcmuls lean towards Lawful Good and a disproprtionate number seem to adopt the calling of the Paladin. Moraddin Soul-Forger does not share his peoples disdain. He has made it painfully clear to his clergy that the Dwarf Father counts Orcmuls as among the most cherished of his children, and it is among the clergy that Orcmuls find even a passing semblence of acceptance.

Despite all the sorrows of their birth, Orcmuls are granted a single blessing. There is no race known that has the kind of intuitive grasp of combat that Orcmuls do. Orcmuls take to combat as other races take to poetry, song, and dance. Orcmul Generals would be legendary if anyone ever acknowledged they were at the forefront of their army. Among all the creatures of the earth few are as naturally adept at combat as these, the cast away children of the All Father.

Orcmul Traits (Ex)

Orcmuls possess the following racial traits.

-2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Wisdom, -4 Charisma.

Medium size.

An Orcmul’s base land speed is 30 feet.

Darkvision out to to 60 feet.

Warcunning: An Orcmul may use their wisdom modifier to qualify for any feat on the Fighter bonus feats list. Orcmuls have access to the Fighter bonus feat list regardless of their class.

Weapon and Armor Intuition: Orcmuls increase the benefits of feats (such as Weapon Specialization, Weapon Focus, Improved Trip, Shield Specialization, or Spell Focus and Spell Penetration feats) that numerically improve their combat prowess by an additional +1. This does not apply to feats that increase range, grant extra ttacks, or caster level. Nor does this apply to metamagic feats.

+2 Insight bonus on saving throws against Fear and Pain effects.
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls.
+2 dodge bonus to Armor Class.
+2 racial bonus on Sense Motive, Bluff, Spot or Listen checks that are related to Combat.
+2 racial bonus to Will Saves.

Illiteracy: Regardless of class orcmuls are illiterate unless the spend the requisite skill points necessary to become literate. For any class that requires spellbooks or otherwise heavily relies on reading to function, an illiterate Orcmul must spend the necessary skillpoints to become literate or they may not adopt the class. Illiterate orcmuls may not read from scrolls.

Language Barrier: -3 to all charisma based social skills, such as diplomacy, intimidate and bluff. Requires two points of intelligence modifier for every bonus language rather than one.

Automatic Languages: Common, Dwarven. Bonus Languages: Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran, Undercommon.
Favored Class: Paladin.
 

Vegepygmy

First Post
If they do, and don't quit, then you are crossing from the realm of D&D into the realm of sexual role-playing, and this should be posted on a different forum.
If it is PC raping PC, again, maybe you should look into a different forum, because this is just sexual role-playing, which is not D&D.
Sez who? While I personally don't care to include sexuality in my role-playing, I'm not aware of anything that makes such a game "not D&D." In fact, over the years, I've had several experiences with sex in D&D.

If you don't like the subject matter of a thread, don't read it and/or don't post in it. Telling people it should be posted in a different forum because it doesn't meet your personal, arbitrary standard of "what is D&D" is just threadcrapping.
 

jefgorbach

First Post
The question: In the event that a male Orc violently impregnated a female Dwarf against her will do you believe that dwarf would be more likely to terminate the pregnancy, and if not do you feel that the Orf child would be accepted as a member of an average clan by the clans leadership? in other words, would the majority or the minority view this offspring as an abomination and seek to terminate, exile, or otherwise destroy the child?

It would depend upon your campaign, but dwarves are stereotyped as being rock-rigid traditionists who strive to ensure their Clan’s survival over their own. Combined with the generally accepted exceedingly-low dwarven birth-rate, would certainly ensure ANY potential offspring would be carried to full-term; if possible.

Post-birth reaction would follow strict religious dogma with any visibly pure-dwarven offspring be taken as an omen from the Forge Father’s favor and cleansing of the impure seed. Such infants would be consider full-blood dwarves with full Clan status unless future events (say puberty) prove otherwise. However any visible orc-traits immediately condemn the infant to a quick merciful death lest its villainous inheritance bring corruption and disfavor upon the Clan.

Regardless, the mother would remain Clan and thus above reproachment, although dogma may require some form of fiery cleansing ritual in the latter case to remove the orcish impurity from her mental/physical/spiritual being.
 

PureGoldx58

First Post
Book of Erotic fantasy, look it up. It has a lot of rules and classes based on sexual material. A lot of the rules they came up with make sense in the general game world. I believe it even covers forced interactions.
 

lordxaviar

Explorer
I was looking for something else and found an article or editorial...forgot which..by Gary G... he was against monsters as characters and told Dms to discourage, halfbreeds and if so ...make them completely weaker than either was to start not better.

He was for pushing the humans.. it was from the year 82 didnt write it down it was late and i was busy doing something else...


x
 

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