Converting Epic Level Creatures

[Cleon]

Im sorry guys life is once again getting in the way. But +5 sounds good

Hi Nookie!

Glad to hear you haven't forgotten about us.

 

[Cleon]

Sure, that's fine. I guess we need typical spells prepared --- ugh!
0th level - Detect Magic x3, Read Magic x2??
1st level - ...
Better just post this to get the conversation about these started.

We could crib from some existing high-level sorcerer/wizard.

There are a few Greater Titans we could use, namely Coeus, Crius, Epimetheus and Prometheus. The last two are the closest thematically to Andromidus.


Quoting their CC entries:


Coeus
Coeus can cast arcane spells as a 15th-level sorcerer (6/8/8/8/8/7/7/5; save DC 18 + spell level). He has access to the following spells:
0 – dancing lights, daze, detect magic, mage hand, message, prestidigitation, ray of frost, resistance, touch of fatigue;
1st – expeditious retreat, protection from good, ray of enfeeblement, reduce person, ventriloquism;
2nd – darkness, invisibility, mirror image, spectral hand, summon swarm;
3rd – dispel magic, displacement, nondetection, rage;
4th – crushing despair, enervation, Evard’s black tentacles, shout;
5th – baleful polymorph, feeblemind, nightmare, prying eyes;
6th – circle of death, eyebite, symbol of fear;
7th – greater shadow conjuration, project image.


Crius
Crius can also cast arcane spells as a 15th-level sorcerer (6/9/9/8/8/8/8/5; save DC 20 + spell level). He has access to the following spells:
0 – arcane mark, dancing lights, daze, ghost sound, mage hand, message, open/close, prestidigitation, touch of fatigue;
1st – expeditious retreat, feather fall, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, Tenser’s floating disk;
2nd – blur, misdirection, owl’s wisdom, pyrotechnics, spider climb;
3rd – gaseous form, halt undead, haste, ray of exhaustion;
4th – mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, Otiluke’s resilient sphere, stoneskin;
5th – telekinesis, transmute rock to mud, wall of force, waves of fatigue;
6th – mass bull’s strength, move earth, repulsion;
7th – reverse gravity, symbol of weakness.


Epimetheus
Epimetheus can also cast arcane spells as a 15th-level sorcerer (6/9/9/8/8/8/8/5; save DC 20 + spell level). He has access to the following spells:
0 – arcane mark, dancing lights, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, resistance;
1st – expeditious retreat, grease, jump, Tenser’s floating disk, true strike;
2nd – cat's grace, fog cloud, fox's cunning, mirror image, touch of idiocy; 3rd – displacement, fly, haste, slow;
4th – arcane eye, confusion, scrying, stone shape;
5th – baleful polymorph, fabricate, major creation, transmute rock to mud;
6th – flesh to stone, greater heroism, true seeing;
7th – banishment, mass hold person, statue.


Prometheus
Prometheus can also cast arcane spells as a 15th-level wizard. He has access to the following spells:
0 – acid splash, arcane mark, dancing lights, daze, detect magic, detect poison, disrupt undead, flare, ghost sound, light, mage hand, mending, message, open/close, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue;
1st – alarm, burning hands, detect undead, feather fall, hypnotism, identify, magic missile, obscuring mist, ray of enfeeblement;
2nd – bear’s endurance, continual flame, detect thoughts, flaming sphere, fox’s cunning, glitterdust, mirror image, owl’s wisdom, protection from arrows, scorching ray, see invisibility, shatter, Tasha’s hideous laughter, touch of idiocy, web;
3rd – blink, clairaudience/clairvoyance, deep slumber, displacement, fireball, gaseous form, halt undead, haste, magic circle against evil, nondetection, suggestion, tongues;
4th – fire shield, locate creature, mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, shout, solid fog, stoneskin, wall of fire;
5th – baleful polymorph, break enchantment, dominate person, dream, feeblemind, permanency, wall of force;
6th – antimagic field, contingency, disintegrate, geas/quest, greater heroism, mass bull’s strength, mass suggestion, mislead, true seeing;
7th – banishment, delayed blast fireball, greater arcane sight, greater scrying, greater teleport, insanity, limited wish, spell turning, vision;
8th – Bigby’s grasping hand, discern location, incendiary cloud, Otto’s irresistible dance, protection from spells, summon monster VIII, sunburst.

Typical Wizard Spells Prepared (4/8/8/8/7/7/6/5/3; save DC 25 + spell level);
0 – disrupt undead, ghost sound, mending, prestidigitation;
1st – burning hands, feather fall, hypnotism, identify, magic missile (x2), obscuring mist, ray of enfeeblement;
2nd – continual flame, detect thoughts, mirror image, owl’s wisdom (x2), protection from arrows, see invisibility, Tasha’s hideous laughter;
3rd – blink, clairaudience/clairvoyance, deep slumber, fireball, gaseous form, magic circle against evil, nondetection, tongues;
4th – fire shield, locate creature, mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, shout, solid fog, stoneskin;
5th – baleful polymorph, break enchantment, dominate person, dream, feeblemind, permanency, wall of force;
6th – antimagic field, disintegrate, greater heroism, mass bull’s strength, mislead, true seeing;
7th – banishment, greater arcane sight, greater teleport, insanity, spell turning;
8th – Bigby’s grasping hand, discern location, protection from spells.

 

[freyar]

Why don't we then start with Prometheus's spells prepared and work from there?

But shouldn't Andromidus have more bonus spells? Shouldn't he have 4 spells at each level + 0/4/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/2 bonus spells?

 

[Cleon]

Why don't we then start with Prometheus's spells prepared and work from there?

Sounds like a plan!

But shouldn't Andromidus have more bonus spells? Shouldn't he have 4 spells at each level + 0/4/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/2 bonus spells?

Yes, the 5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5/5 in the current Working Draft's Typical Wizard Spells Prepared is just a place-holder. I didn't bother figuring out the numbers.

Come to think of it, I should figure out the spells for his Cleric levels too since Andromidus has a super-high Wisdom.

Actually, Prometheus has Int 40 so he's got one more bonus spell at 3rd and 7th level than Andromidus. We'll need to cut one of Prometheus's 3rd level spells out.

Prometheus Typical Wizard Spells Prepared (4/8/8/8/7/7/6/5/3).
4/4/4/4/4/4/3/2/1 from CL 15th
0/4/4/4/3/3/3/3/2 from Int 40.

Andromidus Typical Wizard Spells Prepared (4/8/8/7/7/7/7/6/6/6).
4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4 from CL 25th
0/4/4/3/3/3/3/2/2/2 from Int 39.

Comparing the two, if we start with Prometheus's spells, we need to remove one of the 3rd-level spells and add a 6th level spell, a 7th level spell, three 8th level spells, and six 9th level spells.

4/8/8/8/7/7/6/5/3 [Prometheus]
4/8/8/7/7/7/7/6/6/6 [Andromidus]

I've updated the Andromidus Working Draft with the correct spell roster and the +5 racial bonus to Illusions.

 

[Cleon]

I've updated the Andromidus Working Draft with the correct spell roster and the +5 racial bonus to Illusions.

Does the +5 racial bonus to Illusions also apply to SLAs? If so, his persistent image SLA should go from DC 25 to DC 30.

 

[freyar]

I'd apply the racial bonus to SLAs, yes.

If we're starting with Prometheus's spells, I think I'd drop fireball at 3rd level.
Fiddling around with the lower level spells, I'd substitute read magic and detect magic for disrupt undead and ghost sound at 0th level (esp since he can cast ghost sound spontaneously), leave 1st level alone, and replace mirror image with something like summon swarm or flaming sphere.

 

[Cleon]

I'd apply the racial bonus to SLAs, yes.

If we're starting with Prometheus's spells, I think I'd drop fireball at 3rd level.

I agree to both, so I'll update the Andromidus Working Draft.

Fiddling around with the lower level spells, I'd substitute read magic and detect magic for disrupt undead and ghost sound at 0th level (esp since he can cast ghost sound spontaneously), leave 1st level alone, and replace mirror image with something like summon swarm or flaming sphere.

That raises a good point - we should cut out all the Illusion SLAs, since Andromidus can cast them spontaneously.

 

[freyar]

Are you ok with my suggestions for spell levels 0-2?

 

[Cleon]

Are you ok with my suggestions for spell levels 0-2?

Let's see, you proposed:

0 – read magic, detect magic, mending, prestidigitation;
1st – burning hands, feather fall, hypnotism, identify, magic missile (x2), obscuring mist, ray of enfeeblement;
2nd – continual flame, detect thoughts, owl’s wisdom (x2), protection from arrows, see invisibility, summon swarm, Tasha’s hideous laughter;

Hmm... two owl's wisdom seems superfluous, especially when his main CL is Int-based. Wouldn't fox's cunning make better sense? Or, failing that, eagle's splendor. Heck, why not give him all three mental attribute boosting spells?

He's also got epic damage reduction and at-will invisibility purge as a CL 25th SLA, so protection from arrows and see invisibility seem a bit superfluous, although they still have their uses I suppose, so we could keep them.

That'd make the 2nd level:

2nd – continual flame, detect thoughts, eagle's splendor, fox's cunning, owl’s wisdom, protection from arrows, see invisibility, Tasha’s hideous laughter;

 

[freyar]

That'll work, but I'd still swap in summon swarm for something. Hard to know which is more useful, that, protection from arrows, or see invisibility.