Converting "Real World" Animals and Vermin

[Cleon]

Added to Homebrews.

It sounds like it has a decent Listen skill. How shall we handle the camouflauge/mimicry?

Yes it does. We'd better give it a sizable racial bonus to the skill.

As for the "lady", I'm thinking it works like a combination of Disguise and Bluff except the fish has a flat or HD-based DC instead of actual skill ranks.

Hmm...the ram n' bite mechanic feels a bit like the auto-bite often associated with improved grab with another extremity. However, it isn't really "grabbing" in this case.

FWIW, the Power Lunge feat offers the following benefit:
A successful attack roll during a charge allows you to inflict double your normal Strength modifier in addition to the attack's damage regardless of whether you’re using one- or two-handed weapons. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent you charged.

You know, we could a similar effect mechanically if it always gets a critical with its ram attack. The second attack roll would then just be the critical confirmation check.

 

[Shade]

Yes it does. We'd better give it a sizable racial bonus to the skill.

+8?

As for the "lady", I'm thinking it works like a combination of Disguise and Bluff except the fish has a flat or HD-based DC instead of actual skill ranks.

My only concern is that Disguise is usually employed by more intelligent creatures, although a flat DC isn't really any different that camouflage, since both are opposed by Spot.

You know, we could a similar effect mechanically if it always gets a critical with its ram attack. The second attack roll would then just be the critical confirmation check.

That seems a bit too much of a stretch. Besides the difference of bludgeoning vs. piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning damage between the two, it could lead to some horrible rules violations when templates, etc. are applied to the creature. Anything that grants a benefit based on a critical hit would increase in frequency could easilby be abused.

I'm thinking something along the lines of ...

Bash n' Bite (Ex): If a giant damselfish hits with its slam attack, it may make a bite attack as a swift action. This bite attack is made with a +2 circumstance bonus.

 

[Cleon]

That seems a bit too much of a stretch. Besides the difference of bludgeoning vs. piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning damage between the two, it could lead to some horrible rules violations when templates, etc. are applied to the creature. Anything that grants a benefit based on a critical hit would increase in frequency could easilby be abused.

Dang it, I was hoping to slip my idea for the Auto-Vorpal Damselfish past you.

I'm thinking something along the lines of ...

Bash n' Bite (Ex): If a giant damselfish hits with its slam attack, it may make a bite attack as a swift action. This bite attack is made with a +2 circumstance bonus.

Yes, that was going to be my next choice.

What about the stun effect? something like:

Stunning Charge (Ex): If a giant damselfish scores a critical hit with its slam attack as part of a charge it stuns its target for 1d3 rounds, if the target succeeds at a DC 14 Fortitude save it is only dazed for 1 round instead. The save DC is Strength-based.

 

[freyar]

Bash 'n' Bite is pretty fun. Maybe it should only work on a charge, though? Well, I guess there's no harm in making it more general.

Stunning charge is good, but I think 1d3 rounds stunning is a bit much at 2HD. How about 1 round?

 

[Shade]

Agreed on 1 round, and I'd be OK with limiting bash n' bite to a charge.

Your thoughts, Cleon?

 

[Cleon]

Agreed on 1 round, and I'd be OK with limiting bash n' bite to a charge.

Your thoughts, Cleon?

It depends how close we want to keep to the original, which stunned for 1-3 rounds and then auto-hit with two ram & bites every round.

That's nasty, so I think the 3E should be similarly nasty. We could make it dazed 1-3 rounds instead (on a failed save), if you want to soften the impact of the charge, but in that case we should change its name from "Stunning Charge".

As for the ram & bite, I think I'd allow it on a standard attack.

Then it can ram & bite every round a victim is dazed, but can not use StunningDazing Charge again without spending a round to move away, then charging the next round. That could represent how the original Giant Damselfish could not stun a victim again while giving them its patented double-fast smackdown.

 

[Shade]

So...

Bash n' Bite (Ex): If a giant damselfish hits with its slam attack, it may make a bite attack as a swift action. This bite attack is made with a +2 circumstance bonus.

Dazing Charge (Ex): If a giant damselfish scores a critical hit with its slam attack as part of a charge it dazes its target for 1d3 rounds. If the target succeeds on a DC 14 Fortitude save, it is only dazed for 1 round. The save DC is Strength-based.

 

[freyar]

Seems fine to me! Anything else unusual for this one?

 

[Shade]

We still need to resolve this matter...

As for the "lady", I'm thinking it works like a combination of Disguise and Bluff except the fish has a flat or HD-based DC instead of actual skill ranks.

My only concern is that Disguise is usually employed by more intelligent creatures, although a flat DC isn't really any different that camouflage, since both are opposed by Spot.

 

[Cleon]

So...

Bash n' Bite (Ex): If a giant damselfish hits with its slam attack, it may make a bite attack as a swift action. This bite attack is made with a +2 circumstance bonus.

Dazing Charge (Ex): If a giant damselfish scores a critical hit with its slam attack as part of a charge it dazes its target for 1d3 rounds. If the target succeeds on a DC 14 Fortitude save, it is only dazed for 1 round. The save DC is Strength-based.

Looks good to me!

Still not that fond of "Dazing Charge", but I couldn't come up with anything better. "Staggering Charge" would have the same problem as "Stunning", since it's also a condition in 3E.

Can you think of any nicer-sounding alternatives to "Dazing"?

Traumatizing Charge? Shocking Charge?

Of those, methinks "Traumatizing" is the better synonym.