D&D 2E Converting the old 2E bard kits?

[FoxWander]

Has anyone seen or done a conversion of the bard kits from the 2E Complete Bard's handbook?

I really like Jack-of-all-Trades type characters and the bard is the only single class option you have for that sort of thing. I realize you can get the same effect with a multi-class fighter/mage/thief but, XP penalties for too many classes aside, a 6th level F/M/T who's 2nd level in each class IS NOT equal to a 6th level straight bard, or any other straight 6th level character.

The bard could be the perfect "Professional Dungeon Delver" class if it weren't for all the d@mn singing! Personally, if I were in a dungeon and one of my companions burst into song everytime a monster popped out I'd beat him to death with his own freaking lute!!

As an alternative to converting the 2E kits, does anyone have any suggestions for replacement abilities for 'bardic music'? Perhaps a set of quasi-magic abilities based on high skill in a more dungeon useful skill, or group of skills?

 

[qstor]

There is a new Jack of All trades Feat in Song and Silence.

Mike

 

[Crimson_Blade]

I disagree. IMESHO, a bard should be a singing character. The bard has good personality skills, good enchantment + mass haste spells, and bardic music. The fighting ability is a joke. Don't believe me?
Fighter/Paladin/Barbarian/Ranger vs. Bard: Clear winner here

Rogue vs. Bard: Bard gets proficiency with the longsword, Rogue gets armor, feats, and sneak attack damage. Rogue wins.

Monk vs. Bard: Monk has many attacks, good unarmed damage, plus nifty special abilities, good armor class, etc. Bard has longsword or rapier. Monk wins.

Cleric vs. Bard: Cleric has Divine Power, Divine Favor, GMW, Magic Vestement, etc. all of which last a long time or can be PERSISTED, plus cleric wears full plate armor and has better hit points. Cleric wins.

Druid vs. Bard: Druid can wild shape, has flame blade, better hit points, usually possesses better Con, w/o spells they are about even in melee combat.

The bard is really only better than sorcerers and wizards in melee.

And in a general combat setting, the magic missiles, fireballs, and polymorphs are pretty damn useful.

Professional Dungeon Delver? Are you out of your mind? Personality skills, healing, charm, diviniations, and summonings? Pathetic skill with a rapier?

The bard has NO ability to detect traps. The bard has a poor armor class. The bard has mediocre combat ability, and while Hide, Sneak, and Tumble maybe be useful, they aren't THAT useful.

The most versatile class is a cleric. Clerics have good fighting power, especially with the War Domain, have the best healing, several good utility spells, good AC and hit points, and have summoning (better than bards) and nukes.

Rogues are also versatile, given their good trap detection, stealth skills, and sneak attacks.

As far as a bard being The Professional Dungeon Delver, I couldn't think of anything farther than the truth.

 

[Crimson_Blade]

Also bear in mind that there are no mages or thieves.

 

[warlord]

There are Mages and Thieves and there will be until I die. In reality there are no rouges but there are wizards since that is a specilized mage.

 

[Thanael]

I`ve been trying to convert the Blade kit, but it turns out a fighter/rog multiclass with perhaps 1 or 2 bard levels at most.(if at all) Probably with a bit of sorceror woudl be best.

 

[Storyteller01]

The bard could be the perfect "Professional Dungeon Delver" class if it weren't for all the d@mn singing! Personally, if I were in a dungeon and one of my companions burst into song everytime a monster popped out I'd beat him to death with his own freaking lute!!

Who says they have to sing

Older stories have ninjas using chants and gestures to creat effects. The Bard could just as easily be seen as a Ninja, focusing on magic instead of sneak attack damage (get poison or a garrote instead). Use a Performance (Kotodama) skill (effectively chanting) instead of performance song.

This is the one time I think that DM's can have some fun with situational descriptions (the 'bard' begins a dark worboling chant, strengthen your team and terrifying your enemies...)

 

[Storyteller01]

sorry, double post!!

 

[Szatany]

As an alternative to converting the 2E kits, does anyone have any suggestions for replacement abilities for 'bardic music'? Perhaps a set of quasi-magic abilities based on high skill in a more dungeon useful skill, or group of skills?

I did some alternative bardic abilities. Check them here, enjoy and feel free to ask about anything.

 

[Darthjaye]

I disagree. IMESHO, a bard should be a singing character. The bard has good personality skills, good enchantment + mass haste spells, and bardic music. The fighting ability is a joke. Don't believe me?
Fighter/Paladin/Barbarian/Ranger vs. Bard: Clear winner here

Rogue vs. Bard: Bard gets proficiency with the longsword, Rogue gets armor, feats, and sneak attack damage. Rogue wins.

Two things wrong with your assesment of the Bard though. One, they can wear light armor and, better than the Rogue, they can use all shields except Tower shields. So as far as their armor class, i'd give one to the Bard here.

Second, you seem to believe that singing is the only way to their abilities. Read carefully under their abilities. It says that while it falls under "music" they can actually use poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, and whistling to name a few (One wonders if satire or jokes/ comedy would also qualify).

I just hope you will see that they do hold more value in a fight than you give em credit for. This isn't to say they substitute well for any fighter type, but crafted well, they can hold their own.