D&D 5E Convince me to keep reading Princes of the Apocalypse (*significant* spoilers. Also my players keep out)

[aramis erak]

Hmm. In Marvel comics, I often see a lot of interaction between different supers - but generally it's a matter of calling on someone's expertise rather than their ability to smash face. For example, let's say Spider-Man runs into some shape-shifting aliens. He then calls up Reed Richards, who goes "Oh, those are skrulls, blah blah blah. But we're headed out to the Microverse, so good luck with those."

Often enough to be worth mention, tho' not often enough to be SOP, when things need smashing, they call upon Hulk, She-Hulk, or Thor. And a few of the comics have the headliner get on the case by call-up from someone who can't handle them. (DC does this, from time to time, too.)

 

[JeffD]

Your concerns may be great opportunities to add some of your own ideas. Many GMs might not care or think of these questions, but you may be able to flesh out your own version of the story by coming up with answers to questions like:

"What is going on that is preventing powerful NPCs from helping?"
"Why are so many powerful dangers circling this area now?"

There are plenty of potential answers to these concerns. In many realms novels, the protagonists are swamped and constantly offloading work to younger agents. I have a feeling that if you're asking these questions in the first place, you're quite capable of developing some cool answers and applying your own style to the module.

 

[fba827]

The solution would be to create open ended sandboxes that do not have a predetermined *plot*. Though I don't see Wizards doing this anytime soon.

They kind of did that already a few years back with hammerfall and Von rok ( I don't remember the names but those letters were in the name somewhere - one was a Dwarven city and had info on the political structure and some tensions going on and a few schemes going on in the area as backdrop. The other was a fallen tiefling city in ruins and the info was on the group's in the area who were scavenging as well as areas in the ruins).

They were both very open and sandbox-y to do what you like , and I actually got some use out of both of them, but my understanding is that they did not sell well and a criticism was that they were too open and sandbox-y for new DMs trying to have something preped and ready to go for them.

 

[GameOgre]

I just wanted to say....I thought the whole situation with the heroes encountering untold minions of Evil and mayhem constantly kind of, a necessary silliness. Something we need to deal with because well, we are playing a game.

Then I watched my local news last night. So in my very small part of the world in the middle of nowhere and in a small town to boot, we had like 40 major outbreaks of evil and 300 more minor nasty little encounters within the last 24 hours.

At first I thought it was a great defense to our argument but then the wife came up with the theory that perhaps it came down to simply this. We have a adventuring group in the area!

 

[Celtavian]

Wait a second. You complain that this entirely new story is too derivative and unimaginative, but you want them to update the old modules and just print those? How does that make any sense?

It means I like the original, not some derivative of the original. How is that hard for you to understand?

It's like movie remakes. Do I want to watch some other guy's take on The Godfather or do I want to watch the original The Godfather. I'm the guy that wants to the watch the original. Maybe you're the guy that wants to see someone do their own take on it. That's why I want the originals updated and released. So I can play a module I like in the new edition, not some other guy's take on it.

Why did they even name it Elemental Evil other than to try to capitalize on an original that was great and well-remembered in the minds of fans. Sorry, when I want to watch a Star Wars movie, I watch the originals. When I want Elemental Evil, I want the original. It was the original that I had fun with and found inspiring and interesting. Princes of the Apocalypse has almost nothing to do with the original and they could have named it something else. I'm going to pass on this one and wait until WotC releases something original and interesting.

 

[Celtavian]

The asylum is a giant red herring. It gives you little new information you couldn't find elsewhere. It's experience padding.

I guess we'll have to disagree. I found the asylum section interesting. I had not yet experienced a D&D module that used ghouls and ghoul fever in such an interesting manner. Perhaps you had already experienced ghoul fever used in such a manner. I found putting a patient with ghoul fever in an asylum for the mentally ill and sick an interesting and unique method of providing the players with a piece of evidence in a murder mystery.

You see that as experience padding. I see it as an interesting way to incorporate a story element.

The first module is pretty much a side quest. Nothing that happens with the goblins or villains has any bearing on the larger story. You could start the PCs at level 4, have them hired to investigate the Catacombs of Wrath, discover a Sihedron mdelalion, and the larger story would be unaffected in the least.

It's not a side quest. It's a way to integrate the PCs indirectly into a story. They are dealing with a goblin invasion thinking that is the primary adventure. Surprise, the goblins aren't the real problem. You seem to be looking at it from a DM's perspective. From a player's perspective, it throws them off and keeps the actual cause of the adventure a mystery. That is what it's supposed to be. You don't actually figure out who is really behind the goings on until the third or fourth module. That's what I found so unique about Rise of the Runelords. They start you off thinking it's some standard "fight the humanoids" adventure, then they send you after a serial killer and haunted house, and then after crazy ogres. The entire time they keep you guessing while providing you with clues and bits of information along the way as to who the real culprit is. I found the set up quite interesting. I used the misdirection to the fullest to keep the players guessing as to what they were really facing.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

It means I like the original, not some derivative of the original. How is that hard for you to understand?

It's like movie remakes. Do I want to watch some other guy's take on The Godfather or do I want to watch the original The Godfather. I'm the guy that wants to the watch the original. Maybe you're the guy that wants to see someone do their own take on it. That's why I want the originals updated and released. So I can play a module I like in the new edition, not some other guy's take on it.

Why did they even name it Elemental Evil other than to try to capitalize on an original that was great and well-remembered in the minds of fans. Sorry, when I want to watch a Star Wars movie, I watch the originals. When I want Elemental Evil, I want the original. It was the original that I had fun with and found inspiring and interesting. Princes of the Apocalypse has almost nothing to do with the original and they could have named it something else. I'm going to pass on this one and wait until WotC releases something original and interesting.

As I mentioned twice in the past this adventure has little in common with the original. Hell it has more to do with Elemental Evil then the original. (The original did not have much to do with it.)

 

[B. Chaos]

That does seem to be the challenge: creating a good sandbox which is easy to run for new DMs. It's something I'd like to try my hand at in the near future.

 

[Nemio]

I'm quite interested in using this adventure after I get through the Starter Set.
I'm just wondering if the fighting of the Cults doesn't get repetitive after a while?

 

[Cadriel]

I'm quite interested in using this adventure after I get through the Starter Set.
I'm just wondering if the fighting of the Cults doesn't get repetitive after a while?

There's a whole chapter full of side quests that is there for just this reason. The side treks are designed such that you could literally alternate between them and the main dungeon areas, if you wanted to, for levels 3 through 11.