This. Invocations are the thing that make warlocks stand out especially out of combat. In combat they are just essentially archers that shoot every round. Out of combat the choice of invocations make for remarkably different and intriguing warlocks.
D&D 5E Convince me we're doing the Warlock wrong
This. Invocations are the thing that make warlocks stand out especially out of combat. In combat they are just essentially archers that shoot every round. Out of combat the choice of invocations make for remarkably different and intriguing warlocks.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
So with two rests per day, a 1st-level warlock has 3 1st-level spells per day.
The wizard has two.
The sorcerer has two.
The bard has two.
The cleric? Also two.
Sounds like it's working as intended there - warlocks cast their spells more often - they cast more spells in a day. They also are free to spam every spell they have in every other encounter, which isn't exactly the same as more often, but provides a similar vibe - the warlock is spending more action spellcasting than most other classes.
What was your expectation there?
Actually the wizard has three.
(More to the point, 1st level is hardly a fair comparison. A 6th-level warlock has 6 spells per day compared to a regular caster's 10. They do indeed get fewer spells per day than other casters; invocations and pact features are what makes up for that.)
Falling Icicle
Adventurer
That's only at 1st level, when spellcasting classes have the least number of slots. The warlock has the same number of slots at level 10 that he does at level 2, while other spellcasters have 15 spell slots by then. The warlocks slots are all higher level, but it still leaves the warlock in a really tight squeeze.
I don't mean to imply that the warlock is a terrible class or anything. Despite its flaws, I think it could be fun to play. I just find it incredibly odd that the designers think that the warlock's spell list has to be kept very small and not have any spells that would be "annoying" if they were cast "too often." The warlock doesn't really get to cast more total spells in a day than other classes do, unless it's a very unusual day with a lot of short rests. Even then, the warlock has to carefully conserve his power between rests. He only gets a couple of spell slots at a time and then has to rest again. It simply isn't possible for a warlock to cast his spells at a frequency that's anything close to "annoying."
They only let warlocks learn spells like bane, bestow curse, and slow via invocations that limit their use to once per day. But other spellcasters can cast those kinds of spells many times per day. If it's not annoying for a cleric to cast bane a dozen times per day, it can't be annoying for a warlock to do so. Ironically, a multiclass warlock/cleric, wizard, etc. can use his warlock spell slots to cast those very same spells. It just doesn't seem like they really thought that one through.
doctorhook
Legend
Invocations are such a powerful feature for customizing a warlock, but Agonizing Blast seems like a problem...because you're doin' it wrong* if you don't take it.
If you should always take Agonizing Blast, it becomes an invocation tax. If warlocks have to pay an invocation tax, Agonizing Blast should be a freebie, right?
ad_hoc
(they/them)
I like that Warlocks work differently than other casters.
It is a bit odd that they go from 2 spells at level 10 to 3 at level 11 plus a 6th level spell per long rest. It is a new tier, but that is still a big jump in power.
Still, there is a lot you can do if you build it right. Invocations early on can give you at will 1st level spells like Silent Image and Disguise Self.
There are higher level invocations that let you cast a specific spell once per long rest as well.
There are other abilities that give you more options too like Fey Presence at 1st level. You can even have a speical familiar if you want which can open up more options.
How long are you finding combats to last? At 2 spells per short rest, 2 short rests per long rest, and 6-8 encounters per day you get almost 1 spell per encounter.
If you want, those spells can define the combat (like Faerie Fire) and make it end quickly.
You can also play the default Warlock who focuses on Eldritch Blast and Hex or a melee one who uses Armour of Agathys to great effect.
Lots of options. Don't expect them to beat a wizard or sorcerer at their own game. Warlocks have much more sustained power but less options in their spell list and less ability to combo with it.
It is a bit odd that they go from 2 spells at level 10 to 3 at level 11 plus a 6th level spell per long rest. It is a new tier, but that is still a big jump in power.
Still, there is a lot you can do if you build it right. Invocations early on can give you at will 1st level spells like Silent Image and Disguise Self.
There are higher level invocations that let you cast a specific spell once per long rest as well.
There are other abilities that give you more options too like Fey Presence at 1st level. You can even have a speical familiar if you want which can open up more options.
How long are you finding combats to last? At 2 spells per short rest, 2 short rests per long rest, and 6-8 encounters per day you get almost 1 spell per encounter.
If you want, those spells can define the combat (like Faerie Fire) and make it end quickly.
You can also play the default Warlock who focuses on Eldritch Blast and Hex or a melee one who uses Armour of Agathys to great effect.
Lots of options. Don't expect them to beat a wizard or sorcerer at their own game. Warlocks have much more sustained power but less options in their spell list and less ability to combo with it.
Tony Vargas
Legend
The encounter guidelines at least imply two or three short rests a day, if you're doing fewer than that, anything that re-charges on a short rest is going to suffer a bit. You could reduce short rest from 1hr to something your group is more comfortable doing approximately every-other encounter.
Lord Vangarel
First Post
Thanks for the replies everyone.
He's taken the Mage armor one and a couple of utility invocations. We looked through the list last night discussing it after the game and there really doesn't seem to be many other choices for him.
He's taken the Mage armor one and a couple of utility invocations. We looked through the list last night discussing it after the game and there really doesn't seem to be many other choices for him.
Lord Vangarel
First Post
I thought about this but I think the effect on other characters would be bad. One of them is a fighter who regains an awful lot per short rest, another is a paladin who regains almost nothing so decreasing the time for a short rest would just boost the fighter more.
One suggestion the player made was to make the warlock spells recharge per encounter with a limit of say four times per day. What do you guys think of that?
Another thought I had was to increase the number of spell slots.
The player is pretty disappointed in how the warlock is playing and is considering either multi-classing (something I'm not sure as DM I want) or dropping the character (again something I'd prefer not to happen).
The warlock I'm playing at Encounters is one of the most fun characters I've ever played. Of course, part of that is because I first made her as a wild mage in Hackmaster 4e, then briefly as a warlock in D&D 4e until the wild mage released, and now she's my highest level active character, so she lives in my head with the rest of the cast from my book. It also helps that's a bit nuts. 8o) I honestly can't think of a character that has been more fun to roleplay.
But the subject at hand is mechanics. There, too, she is proving to be a blast – sometimes literally. We are currently level 3, so I have two level 2 spell slots. My first is pretty much always Hex, which may well be the only concentration spell she ever learns, and so far Shatter has been my most-often cast spell in the other slot. It has proven to be especially effective in the tight underground spaces in which we keep finding ourselves.
Given Shyui's explosive personality, the obvious incantations are Agonizing and Repelling Blast, so her Eldritch Blast is 1d10+3 and pushes 10', leading to all sorts of fun. I accidentally killed one of the bandits by launching him into a tree. This week we were in the moving stones room, and Shyui gleefully and repeatedly made the idiot regret trying to hide between the eponymous stones. 8o)
I still had Hex up for that battle since it had been less than half an hour since I activated it, so when I could get line of fire on him I got to deal that extra damage, and when I couldn't I got to hit him with a bloody big rock. 8o)
Shatter has twice now let me lay waste to a small group of minions and a chunk of the dungeon. The first was when a group of skeletons was stopping us from descending some stairs. From my position I couldn't see them very clearly, so I Shattered the ceiling above them instead, killing most of them while keeping the flying degree out of reach of my allies. It was glorious.
Honestly, the only caster I've ever had more fun with is my shielding swordmage.
But the subject at hand is mechanics. There, too, she is proving to be a blast – sometimes literally. We are currently level 3, so I have two level 2 spell slots. My first is pretty much always Hex, which may well be the only concentration spell she ever learns, and so far Shatter has been my most-often cast spell in the other slot. It has proven to be especially effective in the tight underground spaces in which we keep finding ourselves.
Given Shyui's explosive personality, the obvious incantations are Agonizing and Repelling Blast, so her Eldritch Blast is 1d10+3 and pushes 10', leading to all sorts of fun. I accidentally killed one of the bandits by launching him into a tree. This week we were in the moving stones room, and Shyui gleefully and repeatedly made the idiot regret trying to hide between the eponymous stones. 8o)
I still had Hex up for that battle since it had been less than half an hour since I activated it, so when I could get line of fire on him I got to deal that extra damage, and when I couldn't I got to hit him with a bloody big rock. 8o)
Shatter has twice now let me lay waste to a small group of minions and a chunk of the dungeon. The first was when a group of skeletons was stopping us from descending some stairs. From my position I couldn't see them very clearly, so I Shattered the ceiling above them instead, killing most of them while keeping the flying degree out of reach of my allies. It was glorious.
Honestly, the only caster I've ever had more fun with is my shielding swordmage.
