Cosmology Timeline?

[AbdulAlhazred]

Very roughly, my understanding was:
- Universe is created
- Dawn War begins when Deities and Primordials can't agree on the fate of said universe
- Living Gate is destroyed, which produces (or permits the arrival of) the Shard of Evil
- (possibly a bit later) The Lattice of Heaven is destroyed, permanently ruining the gods' plan for their realm and severely hampering their war effort (along with numerous down-the-line consequences for mortal souls)
- Abyss is created when Tharizdun throws the Shard into the "bottom" of the Elemental Chaos
- First primordial is slain (implicitly: after multiple gods have already died)
- Tharizdun is imprisoned and Asmodeus is his jailer
- The Shard of Evil's influence brings Demons into the conflict
- Io is slain by Erek-Hus, who is then slain by the newly-born Bahamut and Tiamat, the only time they have ever worked perfectly in concert
- The gods finally band together and start helping each other, unlike the primordials, who never really present a united front
- Aberrations are created by (some of) the gods, essentially their "answer" to demons
- He-who-Was is slain by Asmodeus, who steals his divine spark; this transforms his realm into the Nine Hells (it used to be much nicer, apparently)
- Several more gods die, but their sacrifices usually result in significant victories
- (possibly earlier) Merger of various divine domains happens, somehow strengthening them against assault (but weakening them in other ways)
- The primordials, still fighting solo, eventually lose the war of attrition, leading to the gods' Pyrrhic victory

Well, most importantly, a very incomplete victory. They stopped the destruction of the world, but the primordials are at best reduced to marginal influence, being trapped or maimed/killed in various ways. The gods are free to do as they please, for now, but an inevitable consequence of the lack of complete victory must inevitably be the coming of the Dusk War, which they are not prophesied to survive. In essence they're almost like survivors squatting in the ruins of their own civilization waiting for the end of times to come and sweep them up.

 

[Joshua Randall]

At what point do the Shardminds begin running around gathering up pieces of the Living Gate?

At what point do the Quoum begin running around killing people to get their magic items so they can recreate their god?

Also why are these two races' backstories so similar?

 

[Zeromaru X]

The Living Gate was destroyed before or in the earliest phase of the Dawn War, while Lakal was killed in the last years (as she was killed by Bahamut) of the war.

I guess these races started to recover their respective shards at the time those tragedies happened.

Also why are these two races' backstories so similar?

I wonder that myself, sometimes.

 

[Eltab]

Asmodeus slays He Who Was during the Dawn War. (And justifies himself because inept half-hearted leadership was costing the gods victories which were within their grasp.)

If the Shard of Evil is not part of the Living Gate, then Tharizdun could have fallen, created the Abyss, and been bound away from the universe before the Dawn War began.

But as noted above, the "timeline" is flexible. It's more like a stack of 3x5 cards than a big fold-out poster.
We have no indication how long between important events. Nor how long important events took to happen / unfold.

 

[Zeromaru X]

The Shard of Pure Evil is what remains of all the evil of an older universe (the universe of the obyriths). According to Demonomicon (sourcebook), the obyriths pushed the Shard through a rift between their universe and the Dawn War universe, but between the time they pushed the Shard and Tharizdun found it, "eons" passed.

Now, the novels about the Abyssal Plague (especially, the Eye of the Chained God) state that Tharizdun got the Shard from the Living Gate (and we know the Living Gate separated the Dawn War universe from the Far Realm).

Notice also that Monster Manual 3 has these monsters named the Weavers, that supposedly existed since before the Dawn War universe was created. And, their civilization was destroyed by "a Seed of Chaos that came from the Far Realm", and this disruption not only destroyed their civilization, also caused the catastrophe that created the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos.

So, with the information given in official sources, we can speculate a bit:

The obyriths send the Shard of Pure Evil through the Far Realm, it rips through the dimensional bordes, destroying the Weavers' civilization and the point of infinite potential that existed before creation, creating the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos (as mentioned in the Worlds and Monsters sourcebook).

Then, someone creates the Living Gate to seal the breach between the universe and the Far Realm, were the Shard is still embedded, and nobody knows about it (leaving the obyriths to die) for eons, until Pelor, Ioun and Tharizdun find the gate again, when they were young (as mentioned in PHB 3 and in the Gates of Madness novella).

We don't know why Tharizdun became power hungry, but eventually he returns to get the Shard to make it a weapon to gain power over all the other deities, and then is when the Living Gate is destroyed, Tharizdun got corrupted and created the Abyss.

This is my interpretation of these events.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The Shard of Pure Evil is what remains of all the evil of an older universe (the universe of the obyriths). According to Demonomicon (sourcebook), the obyriths pushed the Shard through a rift between their universe and the Dawn War universe, but between the time they pushed the Shard and Tharizdun found it, "eons" passed.

Now, the novels about the Abyssal Plague (especially, the Eye of the Chained God) state that Tharizdun got the Shard from the Living Gate (and we know the Living Gate separated the Dawn War universe from the Far Realm).

Notice also that Monster Manual 3 has these monsters named the Weavers, that supposedly existed since before the Dawn War universe was created. And, their civilization was destroyed by "a Seed of Chaos that came from the Far Realm", and this disruption not only destroyed their civilization, also caused the catastrophe that created the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos.

So, with the information given in official sources, we can speculate a bit:

The obyriths send the Shard of Pure Evil through the Far Realm, it rips through the dimensional bordes, destroying the Weavers' civilization and the point of infinite potential that existed before creation, creating the Astral Sea and the Elemental Chaos (as mentioned in the Worlds and Monsters sourcebook).

Then, someone creates the Living Gate to seal the breach between the universe and the Far Realm, were the Shard is still embedded, and nobody knows about it (leaving the obyriths to die) for eons, until Pelor, Ioun and Tharizdun find the gate again, when they were young (as mentioned in PHB 3 and in the Gates of Madness novella).

We don't know why Tharizdun became power hungry, but eventually he returns to get the Shard to make it a weapon to gain power over all the other deities, and then is when the Living Gate is destroyed, Tharizdun got corrupted and created the Abyss.

This is my interpretation of these events.

Yeah, that seems like how I figured it happened. You could imagine it as like a lark, young foolish Pelor, Ioun, and Tharizdun pull some stupid stunt, find the gate, look THROUGH, and Tharizdun (at least) sees SOMETHING. They close it again and agree to shut up about it (this is pretty much the plot of how many movies with a kid that knows the 'dark secret'). Whatever Tharizdun saw, it eats at his mind. Presumably he got a whiff of that ultimate evil and eventually he just HAD to go back. Maybe his fall was sort of like Melkor's, he was just 'first amongst many' and couldn't stomach getting along with the rest. OTOH maybe the thing was whispering in the back of his mind, pushing him over the edge. Finally he can't stand it anymore and he goes back to retrieve the shard, at which point he learns the terrible truth about how he's been used, and runs off to the far ends of the Elemental Chaos with it.

By this time the Dawn War has at least begun. Once he sets off his rotten egg in the Primordial's pool they get REALLY pissed and things hot up fast.

 

[Joshua Randall]

FWIW the 'young Ioun, Pelor, and Tharizdun pull a foolish stunt that drives Tharizdun mad and sets in motion lots of bad stuff' is basically the big secret backstory of my current campaign. I also like to imagine the young gods as basically a D&D adventuring party complete with that one guy (Tharizdun) who just can't resist having his character turn to evil. Also with the added twist that Vecna is super, super jealous that he wasn't invited along to that adventure, plus he's absolutely dying to know what secret things Tharizdun saw.

---

So, here's a question: the Shardminds are made up of fragments of the Living Gate. Restoring the Living Gate would seal the breach between the 'good', normal universe and the 'evil', Far Realms. Does this require a tragic mass sacrifice of Shardminds? Would they voluntarily do it if they knew it would work?

 

[Zeromaru X]

So, here's a question: the Shardminds are made up of fragments of the Living Gate. Restoring the Living Gate would seal the breach between the 'good', normal universe and the 'evil', Far Realms. Does this require a tragic mass sacrifice of Shardminds? Would they voluntarily do it if they knew it would work?

That is an excellent question, because canon never went that far. I want too see your answer for that.

 

[Tony Vargas]

So, here's a question: the Shardminds are made up of fragments of the Living Gate. Restoring the Living Gate would seal the breach between the 'good', normal universe and the 'evil', Far Realms. Does this require a tragic mass sacrifice of Shardminds? Would they voluntarily do it if they knew it would work?

IIRC, there are three schools of thought among Shardminds. I don't remember them well, but something like: (1) The Living Gate still exists in essence, even though, in form, it is shattered, in order to seal the breach, the power of the Living Gate must be enhanced by Shardminds individually seeking ever greater personal power & enlightenment. (2) In order to re-construct the Living Gate it is necessary for Shardminds to go about murdering eachother, Highlander style, with the winner becoming the new Living Gate. (3) In order to re-construct the Living Gate, the Shardminds must come together as one in harmony & unity. Basically Neutral, Good, & Evil Shardmind philosophies. I'm probably not remembering them right, but there were ideas among shardminds about their role in restoring the gate.

I did run an Epic adventure in which the goal was to seal the breach of the Living Gate. In the course of the adventure, some things were 'revealed' (ie I made 'em up): the creatures coming through the gate passed through a series of levels or trials or intermediary dimensions in a 'star,' a bubble of Far-Realm/World-Axis interface, to adapt themselves to the World Axis, with Aberrations being the result; the two universes actually have nothing in common, physically, only Consciousness exists in both, thus why Psionics are the key to dealing with the Far Realms; the 'evil' Shardmind faction was right, sorta, the center of the adventure was the 'Wraith Gate,' an UnLiving version of the living gate formed from the souls/animus of slain shardminds, that was sealing the breach; and, what I intended to be the 'big reveal,' the Living Gate was created not to stop an invasion from the Far Realms, but to allow the World Axis to invade the Far Realms at some future date, after the Gods had cemented complete control (which obviously never happened, oops).

The Heroes destroyed Allabar, the living-planet aberration, and used it's psychic essence to resurrect the Wraith Gate as a new Living Gate, without having to sacrifice the Shardmind race.

 

[Voadam]

At what point do the Shardminds begin running around gathering up pieces of the Living Gate?

At what point do the Quoum begin running around killing people to get their magic items so they can recreate their god?

Also why are these two races' backstories so similar?

Shardminds are a psionic race from PH3 right? I've got 1 and 2 but not 3.

Who are the Quoum and what sources do they show up in?