Could Trance be a ritual instead of a racial.

[Garthanos]

Actually, thinking about this a bit deeper...

Consider it this way. The existing Martial Practices are all things that, before MPs were thought of, were likely to just be either an SC or a simple skill check, maybe a 'trained only' one, etc. but clearly they are in the domain of skills. So, why not consider them to be basically parallel to powers? If you have a power that says you can do X, then you can do it. If you don't then you go to page 42 and try anyway (less effectively etc. perhaps).

I was considering the idea of allowing a generic Heroic Exertion action which can be used in several ways on any skill use you are trained in... make it reliable, break the limits of effect and so on.

The hardest part of that is how does one generalize the idea of "extending beyond the normal limits achievable by skill in an activity "..... Perhaps practices define those explicitly

 

[Garthanos]

Notice at some level the Aura reading is a bit like a skill swap on using arcana or dungeoneering or nature to determine information about a monsters capabilities .... I was thinking insight as the base skill for it by the way and the information is more specific hence the level element. One value might be flexibility it might be applied to any being regardless of their nature.

 

[Garthanos]

Wait, remember, I'm the one that asserts that Martial is a magical power source, just like 'arcane' or 'divine', so I am not in any way considering it impossible to have a Martial Practice that is magical in some sense. I'm only questioning how you would partition this off from a Ritual, and why.

Healing surges being involved... is one distinction. I don't always have martial practices having those either (Sometimes my martial practices spend karma points or physical components like in the above Packing Practice ---- It needs a better name) so obviously that isn't all but sometimes we do have chew the right herb and get that aura sensing mayhaps even grant that to some ally for a duration and it feels like a ritual, but now change that to spend a healing surge and it lasts till you take damage more than a healing surge worth and its a practice.

My son mentioned an In Joke for the name of the packing practice... 4th Dimensional Packing

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I find the practice of envisioning how things might be accomplished in a martially flavored way analogous to many of the rituals more than a little invigorating even finding multiple ways. For instance a trained preparedness boyscout/batman practice can get you mount replacements but so can a more focused animal training: bringing in the herd practice

Yeah, I think that's cool. I think there are just cases where maybe there's also a 3rd concept here, 'Martial Magic'. Maybe armies long ago standardized on simple rituals that repack everything really tightly and efficiently. Maybe every sergeant in any professional army knows to draw the symbol of Gnath and recite the words 14 times backwards and forwards while mixing 3 drops of blood with a little grease and dabbing it on each pack!

Honestly, I think the best possible option would be one where it doesn't matter which of these flavors you use, the mechanics can work for any of them (which I think is true in your example case here).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I was considering the idea of allowing a generic Heroic Exertion action which can be used in several ways on any skill use you are trained in... make it reliable, break the limits of effect and so on.

The hardest part of that is how does one generalize the idea of "extending beyond the normal limits achievable by skill in an activity "..... Perhaps practices define those explicitly

OK, so going on with my concept of "Checks always regulate conflict, and conflict is always handled by a challenge", then a ritual/practice is a check, meaning it helps resolve conflict, and thus it is always part of a challenge. Now, you can always do SOMETHING in a challenge to move forward to the next check (presumably, if not then the PCs are stonewalled or defeated, we will assume this doesn't happen in any reasonable D&D game).

So, what is the actual role of a ritual/practice? It has to be to provide a different option to the character. I mean, you have some fiction, and the player is going to describe how the character utilizes some resource he's got, skill, power, ritual, etc. to move the fiction in his desired direction to achieve a success. So, skill training simply adds to your success rate when you can engage the fiction in a manner that invokes that skill. Knowing a ritual would likewise simply add a resource that allows specific narrative options. The characters are in an SC to see if they can arrive at the Temple of Fate before the Wicked Witch. Casting Phantom Steeds is pretty clearly going to help achieve that, so the Wizard does so, and the party sails over the Forest of Grim on misty flying horses, 1 success!

Honestly, given that the ritual/practice has a cost, its not clear to me that it shouldn't be an auto-success. Maybe it should become an easy check. I'd give an auto-success for burning a daily for instance. Anyway, then my point about page 42 makes sense too. You can create an 'ad hoc' ritual/practice in essence and maybe it helps you, but it has a cost for sure, and the benefit is more problematic. Maybe such things are always hard checks.

 

[Garthanos]

Honestly, given that the ritual/practice has a cost, its not clear to me that it shouldn't be an auto-success.

if you look how I did the Trance practice you will see that when you apply the healing surge it just works... but the best skill use doesn't require the healing surge.

 

[Garthanos]

Honestly, I think the best possible option would be one where it doesn't matter which of these flavors you use, the mechanics can work for any of them (which I think is true in your example case here).

Reflavoring is something I generally encourage.

 

[Garthanos]

Small parties will get less benefit and less cost

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

if you look how I did the Trance practice you will see that when you apply the healing surge it just works... but the best skill use doesn't require the healing surge.

Ohhhhh, you mean what this thread was about? Like 8 pages of you and I going back and forth about rituals ago? How could I remember? Sadly I can't actually, but I can go back to page 1...

 

[Garthanos]

Ohhhhh, you mean what this thread was about? Like 8 pages of you and I going back and forth about rituals ago? How could I remember? Sadly I can't actually, but I can go back to page 1...

I thought making the healing surge optional was kind of an elegant way to have practice with a cost which is "less than" a surge.