CR Modifiers for permanent status effects

[kingius]

If I wanted to make a monster permanently blind, I might guess that it would halve its CR rating, or take 2 off it. I'd then try this out and play around with the modifier in game sessions until I got it feeling about right. However there must be a faster way and so I'm wondering is there an official codified CR modifier for various status effects that are actually permanent (sickened, blind, deafened, etc)?

Why would I want to do this? It could be fun to introduce a blind dragon into the campaign whose base CR is way over the party's heads but it's weakness makes it not only unique but the right challenge rating to take on.

Has anyone done this or does anyone know of a way to codify the status effects into CR modifiers?

 

[VariSami]

In the case of a dragon, it would probably be a minimal hindrance. They have Blindsense and a Breath weapon, after all. As such, the CR is definitely not halved. Maybe -1 or -2. I would probably prefer -1 since it will be a hard fight and reduction in CR only translates to less exp, not an actually easier fight. As such, I would give the players as much exp as possible to reward them.

As far as I know, there is no official guideline for this. In some premade advantures, there are weakened enemies with less than full hit points and they might offer a guideline. However, only some status effects are regularly permanent and they affect different strategies differently. A permanently deafened caster suffers more than other kinds of characters; a permanently blinded fighter suffers more than a caster.

 

[Empirate]

Note that blindness, especially, can turn a tactical challenge into a puzzle encounter. Instead of trading blow for blow with the dragon, they must figure out how to deal with it while staying at least 65' away (out of its blindsense range). If they can do that, the dragon has no way of detecting them (coz it's also out of scent range). Then it's not a challenge, just some hard work to cut down its HP. I'd award some XP for coming up with a creative way of dealing with an "environmental hazard", but nowhere near beating an actual dragon's CR. On the plus side, there's not much risk involved, and they get their hands on some nice trophies and the dragon's hoard, so there's that.

If they can't do that, the fight isn't much easier than a normal dragon. Sure, they effectively have total concealment all the time, which will help their survivability immensely, and Rogues etc. can sneak attack with impunity. Other than that, it's still a fricken dragon, though.

 

[kingius]

Obviously, a permanently blind dragon has also lost it's blind sense ability. I think we've got a split here similar to my own, from it being 1-2 points lower on CR to being much lower, perhaps even half the CR. A dragon that doesn't know where you are might waste it's breath weapon on empty air but equally might still get you with it. It's a tricky one to adjudicate.

 

[VariSami]

Obviously, a permanently blind dragon has also lost it's blind sense ability.

Obviously? While you are the DM and it is your call, it is called blindsense exactly because it allows the blind to sense their surroundings more accurately than normal.

Here's a suggestion: if the dragon has no blindsense either, it is actually cursed instead of merely blind. Cursed - or damned (as in, forsaken for its cruelty or other acts against the gods). "May you know nothing outside your own being" or along those lines which would make it a befitting punishment for a creature of ultimate selfishness as well as cruel to a dragon which values its hoard.

 

[kingius]

Obviously? While you are the DM and it is your call, it is called blindsense exactly because it allows the blind to sense their surroundings more accurately than normal.

Here's a suggestion: if the dragon has no blindsense either, it is actually cursed instead of merely blind. Cursed - or damned (as in, forsaken for its cruelty or other acts against the gods). "May you know nothing outside your own being" or along those lines which would make it a befitting punishment for a creature of ultimate selfishness as well as cruel to a dragon which values its hoard.

A curse would work but it could also have been born that way or suffered a hideous injury from some unusual weapon. I said obviously because it wouldn't make much difference in a battle to have a blind dragon that could still sense the heroes with the goal being to make a higher CR challenge easier to beat (see the first post); the dragon has to lose blind sense to fulfill this. Anyway we agree so lets not quibble over daft things.