D&D 5E Crawford on Stealth

[nswanson27]

Yeah but now we're fighting over passive perception

I guess so . But I think this is a much smaller domain space than all the facets of the theory of "hidden".

 

[robus]

To be even more clear, there isn't such a thing as an "active check" in D&D 5e terminology. It's just an ability check, a passive check, a group check, or a contest. All of those mechanics require the PCs to be doing something with an uncertain outcome, so at no point is the character fictionally passive. At a minimum, the assumption is that a PC is observing the environment for danger (unless they're not!) and, since that is an ongoing effort, a passive check is the go-to mechanic to resolve any uncertainty as to the outcome of that effort.

Don't forget group check

 

[Lanliss]

Don't forget group check

He said group check, in the second sentence...

 

[Satyrn]

Yeah but now we're fighting over passive perception

I can't see what the issue is.

 

[Satyrn]

Yeah but now we're fighting over passive perception

I can't see what the issue is

 

[Mistwell]

I can't see what the issue is

Boy you must have quite the negative modifier on your perception checks, because the DC to spot it was pretty darn low and I don't think we're in dim light here!

 

[Uller]

While I'm not going to complain about the 5e stealth rules, I am pretty happy with the ones in Black Seven, a very small and cheap RPG that specializes in stealth games like Deus Ex and Thief. It runs stealth missions somewhat closer to a Skill Challenge I would say, and failed stealth checks don't automatically mean people are seeing you, but they will start looking for you.

The idea in the mechanics is pretty portable, and could be of use to some folks looking to give something different to their stealth rules

Is there a way of looking at these rules? What I'm getting at is for the naysayers (which you are not one) to provide us with what they believe to be well written rules. Sounds like Black Seven is specifically centered on stealth. Like Mistwell mentioned and JC was getting at, the choice is a complex system that covers everything or something simple that covers 90% and keeps the game moving most of the time. They consciously went with the latter. CapnZapp and others have said this is a cop out and it is possible to have well written, simple rules that cover things more explicitly. So I'd like to see an example.

 

[robus]

He said group check, in the second sentence...

Time to go back to the eye doctor, and I was just there!

 

[Oofta]

Is there a way of looking at these rules? What I'm getting at is for the naysayers (which you are not one) to provide us with what they believe to be well written rules. Sounds like Black Seven is specifically centered on stealth. Like Mistwell mentioned and JC was getting at, the choice is a complex system that covers everything or something simple that covers 90% and keeps the game moving most of the time. They consciously went with the latter. CapnZapp and others have said this is a cop out and it is possible to have well written, simple rules that cover things more explicitly. So I'd like to see an example.

Well, to be fair some people also think that everything about 5E is broken.

But I would be curious as well. I have my own general guidelines but it's really more judgement calls on the fly. It doesn't bother me, but I can see why it would bug some people.

 

[iserith]

Is there a way of looking at these rules? What I'm getting at is for the naysayers (which you are not one) to provide us with what they believe to be well written rules. Sounds like Black Seven is specifically centered on stealth. Like Mistwell mentioned and JC was getting at, the choice is a complex system that covers everything or something simple that covers 90% and keeps the game moving most of the time. They consciously went with the latter. CapnZapp and others have said this is a cop out and it is possible to have well written, simple rules that cover things more explicitly. So I'd like to see an example.

D&D 4e stealth rules are pretty simple in my view and work well in my experience. Rules Compendium, pages 152 to 154. If you have superior concealment or total cover, make a Stealth check against passive Perception, succeed and you're silent and invisible. To remain hidden, keep out of sight, keep quiet, stay put, and don't attack. You're hidden until the action that takes you out hiding is resolved.