D&D 5E Crawford on Stealth

[Maxperson]

"Characters who turn their attention to other tasks as the group travels are not focused on watching for danger. These characters don’t contribute their passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to the group’s chance of noticing hidden threats." Basic Rules, page 65.

So, you could say "the rules have it always on," except when it's not.

Okay, so it's on unless the game says it turns off. So why would I ever declare that I'm keeping an eye out for monsters? That's me gimping my own perception. If I turn my attention to that task, I turn off passive perception. If I don't say what I'm keeping an eye out for and don't engage in an attention grabbing task, my passive perception is on for everything, monsters, traps, secret doors, hidden treasure, etc.

 

[iserith]

Okay, so it's on unless the game says it turns off. So why would I ever declare that I'm keeping an eye out for monsters? That's me gimping my own perception. If I turn my attention to that task, I turn off passive perception. If I don't say what I'm keeping an eye out for and don't engage in an attention grabbing task, my passive perception is on for everything, monsters, traps, secret doors, hidden treasure, etc.

I think you might be interpreting "passive" as referring to the character rather than the check itself (in that there is no roll). A passive check is just a special kind of ability check, used for repetitive tasks or when the DM wants to make a secret roll. An ability check is a mechanic that resolves a task with an uncertain outcome. Therefore, if the DM is using a passive check, then there must be something the character is doing that has an uncertain outcome e.g. keeping watch for hidden danger when traveling the adventure location.

 

[Caliban]

When it's being used, it's both.

Is not!

Is so!

Is not!

Repeat as necessary. Seems like a good point to stop, nothing useful is being accomplished other than rephrasing 'I'm right and you're wrong' in various ways

That seems like a bad call to me. Perception is supposed to be that paranoia and other intangibles to detect things like that.

It's not a call. It's the the rules. Passive perception is used when the PC's choose to be at least minimally alert. If they choose to focus on something else, the DM is free to say it's no longer in effect.

 

[robus]

Okay, so it's on unless the game says it turns off. So why would I ever declare that I'm keeping an eye out for monsters? That's me gimping my own perception. If I turn my attention to that task, I turn off passive perception. If I don't say what I'm keeping an eye out for and don't engage in an attention grabbing task, my passive perception is on for everything, monsters, traps, secret doors, hidden treasure, etc.

If you want that then I'd say you have disadvantage because you're trying to track so many things you're jumping at everything. Jack of all trades, master of none so to speak.

 

[Lanliss]

Okay, so it's on unless the game says it turns off. So why would I ever declare that I'm keeping an eye out for monsters? That's me gimping my own perception. If I turn my attention to that task, I turn off passive perception. If I don't say what I'm keeping an eye out for and don't engage in an attention grabbing task, my passive perception is on for everything, monsters, traps, secret doors, hidden treasure, etc.

That doesn't even make sense. "Keeping my eyes out for monsters" would fall under watching for danger, so you would still get your passive as a floor to your roll for that. What would shut it off is if you were foraging, mapping, or tracking.

 

[Maxperson]

If you want that then I'd say you have disadvantage because you're trying to track so many things you're jumping at everything. Jack of all trades, master of none so to speak.

But the game itself says that if I'm not concentrating on anything else, my passive perception is working on everything at full value. Your ruling is okay and makes sense, but it runs counter to the rules.

 

[Caliban]

I can see that argument. I prefer to lump monsters and traps into "keeping watch for hidden danger" (with traps having the additional requirement of front rank in the marching order) while "search for secret doors" is its own thing.

I kind of lump all three into the same task. "Paying special attention to my environment as I move". I also limit detecting traps to within 10', unless the trap is something big and flashy. "How did I miss the giant bolder suspended over our heads?!" "It was 15' up, out of trap finding range..."

Otherwise it feels like a "gotcha" situation being set up by the DM.

"OK Bob, you can only focus on one task at a time - ambushes, traps, or secret doors. If you choose to focus on watching for ambushes, you will walk blindly into every single trap. If you choose to watch for traps, you will be Surprised at the start of every combat. If you choose either of those, you will miss every secret door. Have fun!"

(I know you lumped 2 of the 3 tasks into one, I'm exaggerating for comedic effect.)

 

[robus]

But the game itself says that if I'm not concentrating on anything else, my passive perception is working on everything at full value. Your ruling is okay and makes sense, but it runs counter to the rules.

What can I say. The game, as written, isn't perfect. It would be amazing if it was. We have to synthesize the experience we want from the materials they provide. I'm sure 6e will finally deliver all we want

 

[iserith]

I kind of lump all three into the same task. "Paying special attention to my environment as I move". I also limit detecting traps to within 10', unless the trap is something big and flashy. "How did I miss the giant bolder suspended over our heads?!" "It was 15' up, out of trap finding range..."

Otherwise it feels like a "gotcha" situation being set up by the DM.

"OK Bob, you can only focus on one task at a time - ambushes, traps, or secret doors. If you choose to focus on watching for ambushes, you will walk blindly into every single trap. If you choose to watch for traps, you will be Surprised at the start of every combat. If you choose either of those, you will miss every secret door. Have fun!"

Luckily, Bob tends to go adventuring with other people who can pick up the slack. In my games, you'll tend to have three people keeping watch for danger (monsters and traps) and one person searching for secret doors. The highest passive Perception PC will be up front. The secret door searcher will be somewhere in the middle ranks. On occasion, someone will forage or track. In a wilderness journey, someone will navigate to avoid the party getting lost.

 

[iserith]

[MENTION=284]Caliban[/MENTION]: Another thing is that for all the concern over the risk of being surprised, in my experience, it doesn't happen very often. Only in particular circumstances does it seem to come up and I doubt even half of the combats I ever run or have played in have involved one side trying to get surprise on the other. Or maybe even way less than half. Others' experience my vary, of course.