D&D and Drugs

[RogueJK]

Hidden drug use in literature is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. How do you have hidden drug use in a book? If the author writes "He smoked tobacco" then that's what happened. Whatever happens in a book is, by default, true. What I mean is, if Tolkein writes "Bilbo put on his hat" then that is indeed what happened. It is not open to discussion.

To claim that the author really meant marijuana is like saying that Frodo Baggins is really a Pigmy Cookie Chef. Sure Tolkien says "Hobbit," but that's not what he MEANS. Sheesh.

Actually, lots of famous literature has drug-related undertones. Take Alice in Wonderland for instance. Or the Wizard of Oz. According to the article (which I'm trying to find again) these books contain drug-related undertones.

Most good literature, I think you'll find, doesn't simply come out and say everything. Good books have layers of subtlety, hidden meanings, and inside jokes.

And it's not that they are taking what the author says and stating something totally different. It's that these books contain passages which depict drug use without coming out and saying "They got high." Most books are more discreet than that.

For instance, besides the LotR references, which we now know aren't true, the article brings up the passage in The Wizard of Oz in which Dorothy wanders into a poppy field, suddenly feels "warm, comfortable, and sleepy" and passes out. Opium, a very common drug around the time the book was written, is extracted from the poppy plant.

Another example would be The Chronicles of Narnia. In it, the White Witch offers Edmund whatever food he wants. He asks for Turkish Delight, and proceeds to eat the entire box. Most people assume it was just candy, but after a little research, you'll find that Turkish Delight is, in fact, hashish (marijuana) mixed with sugar and gelatin. It was exported to England from Egypt, and was popular with Cambridge authors who used it to "improve their creative abilities."

It's the author's way of including a sort of "inside joke." Most people won't get it unless they know it's there.

I'll post the source of the article if I can find it again.

 

[LcKedovan]

Tolkien refers to "the halfling's weed" in his books, and Saruman remarks to Gandalf that "His love of the halfling's weed has clouded his mind."

Somehow, I think he was hinting at something other than tobacco. Marijuana was more prevalent in England than you might think. Europeans had been smoking marijuana for centuries before Tolkien started writing. Even many of the Founding Fathers of the US smoked marijuana.

[Edit] My above statement may be slightly misleading. After doing a little internet research, it seems that in Europe, most marijuana was chewed rather than smoked, especially before the 1800s. And the British were even more likely to be familiar with marijuana, since they ruled over India, which has a long medicinal, social, and religious history involving marijuana that stretches back to around 4000 BC.[/Edit]

Not to hijack the thread, but Have you ever smoked a pipe? Pure tobacco? The quotes you make can easily be attributed to Pipe smoking. Pipe smoking and in fact all tobacco when it was first discovered was very strong, and indeed even pipes and cigars have a strong effect on a person. If Tolkien called it Pipeweed, I see no reason why when someone uses a shortened version of it, ie. Halfling weed, why it should suddenly be attributed to marijuana and what is a _modern_ slang word.

-Will

 

[Azure Trance]

Another comment - I read a book called "The Complete and Annoited Alice in Wonderland" which had footnotes on every page describing the why's and what's in the book. The man who wrote it was also part of the Lewis Caroll Society, or something similarly titled. Anyway, there were plenty of new and interesting facts & hidden meanings in the book but nothing about hidden drug use, even though it had a 'shroom in it. I'd explain it better but I read it last year

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Most good literature, I think you'll find, doesn't simply come out and say everything. Good books have layers of subtlety, hidden meanings, and inside jokes.

And it's not that they are taking what the author says and stating something totally different. It's that these books contain passages which depict drug use without coming out and saying "They got high." Most books are more discreet than that.

For instance, besides the LotR references, which we now know aren't true, the article brings up the passage in The Wizard of Oz in which Dorothy wanders into a poppy field, suddenly feels "warm, comfortable, and sleepy" and passes out. Opium, a very common drug around the time the book was written, is extracted from the poppy plant.


It's the author's way of including a sort of "inside joke." Most people won't get it unless they know it's there.

.

I always wonder about that in works of supposed "great literature" I remember my school days going over books and having teachers tell to look for the symbalism, blah, blah. Is there really hidden meaning or do we invent hidden meaning to either prove how great the literature is or to show we get the inside joke. I really wonder how much symbolism is in things like Hamlet, and how much we implanted to prove how great the writer was. Is that poppy field reference really an inside joke, or is it just coincidence that later on we all say hay look a drug reference aren't I clever for figuring out the hidden meaning.

Sorry, but I really think people frequently look so hard for hidden meaning in things that they find things that aren't there.(english teachers being one of the worst violaters of this crime )

 

[mmadsen]

I'm surprised that the mixture of fantasy and drugs seems odd and unnatural to people.

Obviously drugs have played a crucial role in religious and "magical" rites in the real world throughout the ages. From tribal shamans to murderous religious zealots ("assasin" comes from "hashish"), those in touch with the spirit realm have acheived their enlightenment via drugs. Classic "magic" is the work of drugs: sleeping draughts, love potions, etc.

Drugs are also closely tied with "phantastic" literature and its writers. Hashish and opium have long been tools of dreamy artists. Remember too that most drugs were not illegal until quite recently, and many of the problems associated with drug use came with modern drug prohibition (as with alcohol Prohibition).

 

[Mistwell]

I have a very strong suspicion you will see an official D&D product cover drug usage in 3E in the relatively near future.

 

[RogueJK]

I have a very strong suspicion you will see an official D&D product cover drug usage in 3E in the relatively near future.

There already is one.

As I mentioned in a previous post, Lords of Darkness has an entire section detailing drug use. It describes various drugs, their price, side effects (both good and bad), overdosing, and addiction. It even introduces a new system for determining addiction and withdrawl.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

There is speculation that grain was grown first to produce beer, not for flour or like food.

Virtually all societies have some reliance on addictive substances--alcoholic or herbal "drugs." ALso habituating ones are much cherished--tea, coffee, soft drinks with caffine.

Look at the amount of money made by the (legal) drug industry--pharmaceuticals for their various ant-depressants, depressante, tranquilizers, etc.

So, of course a magic-active world would have great demand for all that sort of thing. That's a given. Likewise, such things used for illegal ends and nefarious purposes would also be in great demand in the black market.

Furthermore, this wouldn't likely have much impact on the market for like susbatnces as are common to the real world...

Cheerio,
Gary

 

[TheTaxMan]

This is going even farther OT, but for the sake of literature teachers everywhere:

The hidden meanings/jokes/symbolism/everything -is- really there, it's just that as high school students that usually aren't very good writers (I'm not talking about your english papers...) it's very easy to say, "None of this crap is really there!" I did it, my friends did it, everyone does it However, once you start to write more (especially if it's just for fun) you start puting little jokes and such in there, and it gets pretty cool. "Does anyone know what I mean?" (grin!)

As for the tolkien thing, I thought it was pretty dumb when the audience filled with giggles at the mention of "the finest weed, yada yada yada." I think it's all pretty underaged personally, especially since they're not all walking around in a stupor. Although in the movie, Gandalf could ahve played that part decently through a large portion

 

[rounser]

The hidden meanings/jokes/symbolism/everything -is- really there, it's just that as high school students that usually aren't very good writers (I'm not talking about your english papers...) it's very easy to say, "None of this crap is really there!" I did it, my friends did it, everyone does it However, once you start to write more (especially if it's just for fun) you start puting little jokes and such in there, and it gets pretty cool. "Does anyone know what I mean?" (grin!)

That's you writing, not every writer on the planet.

For instance, Tolkien hated allegory from what I hear, despite attempts to reinterpret his works as such.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...