D&D DICEMASTERS (Collectible Dice Building Game)

Coming in February is a new dice building game with a D&D theme. "Battle for Faerûn brings Dice Masters Collectible Dice Building game to the tabletop with this all-new head-to-head competitive game set in the Dungeons & Dragons Forgotten Realms universe! Battle for Faerûn is the first set in the Dungeons & Dragons Dice Masters Line! Prepare to defeat the opposing warlord with dragons, mind flayers, beholders, kobolds, stirges, and adventurers!"

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The starter set comes with 44 dice, 38 cards, a couple of dicebags, and a rulebook and will set you back $19.99. There's also a free bonus Minsc & Boo promo card with the starter set, though only while stocks last. You can also buy "foil packs" which contain two dice and two cards for $0.99.

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[Dire Bare]

I have Quarriors, really like the game. Have the Marvel Dice Masters, but haven't had a chance to play it. I still have my Dragon Dice, hate the game. This just brings back the horrors of those days when TSR was thrashing about, trying any way it could to stem the arterial puncture it was bleeding from that had been dealt to it by Magic: The Gathering.

I'm pretty damn sure it will be a fad, just like the fortune cards back in 4E.

Yes, I do believe it will be a fad, because it is done by Wizkids. They have left a legacy of games they have abandoned for the new hotness. I don't see this surviving even as long as the Marvel version. I give it maybe a year.

Quarriors is a very successful game that has won awards and revitalized the collectible dice game genre that began and died years ago with Dragon Dice. Dice Masters is essentially Quarriors 2nd Edition but with licensing! Both games might very well be a fad, but it's impossible to tell right now. And . . . who cares? If I purchase a ton of Dice Masters and a few years from now the game goes out of production, I will still have a very playable collection on my board game shelf!

While Dice Masters naturally brings comparisons to the older Dragon Dice game, as they are both D&D-themed collectible dice games, your TSR flashbacks seem unwarranted. Different games, different times, different companies, different situations.

WizKids does throw games and expansions at the market at a frightening pace. I'm an old man now who can't keep up with the multiple Attack Wing, HeroClix, and now Dice Master games and expansions, both financially and mentally. I haven't gotten into the Star Trek Attack Wing and D&D Attack Wing games for a couple of reasons, but the fast-and-furious release schedules has put me off. But I'm enjoying Dice Masters because the 2-player starter sets alone give you a VERY playable collection, so that the boosters don't feel necessary to me, just fun and cheap add-ons when I'm in the mood. And even though you only get 2 "game elements" per booster, they feel playable right away to me even if I never get more dice for a specific character.

And where do you get the idea that WizKids is all about throwing games out on the market only to "abandon" them prematurely? I can think of Crimson Skies, the MLB clix game, and that styrofoam sailing ship game as game lines canceled by WizKids, but all companies have to let go of under performing product lines, what makes WizKids different? They canceled their HorroClix game, but it was basically a horror-themed HeroClix. They canceled Mage Knight back in the day, but have somewhat recently brought it back under the HeroClix line, showing a willingness to revisit classic games from the past if the circumstances feel right. You see a company "abandoning" games, I see a company willing to experiment with many games to expand their market share.

 

[Dire Bare]

Any comparison to Quarriors does this game a disservice IMO... sure Quarriors is alright, but Dice Masters takes the basic concept of Quarriors and improves upon it to the point where Quarriors is a pale comparison at best to how good Dice Masters is.

Third, any comparisons to Quarriors is superficial at best. This game sure uses the same basic core idea, but it doesn't play like Quarriors at all.

I'm with you Stacie that Dice Masters is a fun game, and I also share your incredulity at some of the negativity directed towards the game.

However, I don't think comparisons with Quarriors are unfair. Quarriors is the "beta-version" of Dice Masters, or alternatively, Dice Masters is the "2nd edition" of Quarriors. They are clearly very closely related games, and WizKids themselves point out that fact in their marketing materials. Quarriors was a very well received game that won awards and revitalized the collectible dice game genre that hasn't seen much action since Dragon Dice died.

They are both good games, and comparing the two isn't (or shouldn't) be a negative thing. I've heard from many folks, in addition to yourself, that Dice Masters is a vast improvement over Quarriors, but that doesn't break the obvious connection between the two games.

 

[delericho]

Dragon Dice was actually a pretty cool game that was very successful, but for a variety of reasons didn't have legs. And, just like TSR mismanaged the rpg itself, TSR mismanaged their hit collectible dice game, killed it, killed the burgeoning collectible dice game "genre" (at the time), and further weakened the company towards collapse.

Per Dancey's recounting of the situation, Dragon Dice were a fad, and TSR were hit really hard when the bottom fell out of that fad just after they'd placed a huge order for additional dice. That, combined with a few other factors, was one of the death blows that ended the company.

Which has nothing to do with the quality of the game itself, of course.

 

[Stormonu]

And where do you get the idea that WizKids is all about throwing games out on the market only to "abandon" them prematurely? I can think of Crimson Skies, the MLB clix game, and that styrofoam sailing ship game as game lines canceled by WizKids, but all companies have to let go of under performing product lines, what makes WizKids different? They canceled their HorroClix game, but it was basically a horror-themed HeroClix. They canceled Mage Knight back in the day, but have somewhat recently brought it back under the HeroClix line, showing a willingness to revisit classic games from the past if the circumstances feel right. You see a company "abandoning" games, I see a company willing to experiment with many games to expand their market share.

Most recently, the Star Trek clicks, which was dropped in favor of Attack Wing.

My previous experience with Wizkids has been primarily with Mechwarrior and their Pirates game with some Mageknight, all of which they ran into the ground by the arms race and 2.0 revisions that "invalidated" all the original stuff (I played primarily in tournaments). Luckily, Crimson Skies and Shadowrun never got off the ground, so I didn't burn much on that. To me, Wizkids has never shown any interest beyond squeezing every dime out of their customers they can, often resulting in lines that are badly balanced because there was little or no playtesting (and often visibly poor quality control) done in the rush to get things out. One of the best, recent examples: Attack Wing's Enterprise D model vs. TOS Enterprise vs. Reliant/Miranda class.

Yes, I loathe Wizkids. I've become very wary of their business practices, and only go into purchases of their product knowing that in most cases, the line will likely terminate in six months, or if it is successful it will need and entire rules revamp and invalidate everything prior to the new version. And such a revision tends to kill interest in the product line.

With all that said, my comments were originally aimed at the line managers at D&D. TSR, just prior to its fall, was thrashing about with a myriad of unsucessful game lines (Spellfire, Dragon Dice, Blood War, Needlepoint, etc.) because it seemed to be trying to find an alternate source of income because CCG's were killing RPGs. The current atmosphere - where we're seeing D&D boardgames, lego knock-offs, dice games and the like - basically anything and everything except RPG product, seems eerily similar to those days.

In the end, It feels like the D&D brand managers have given up on what D&D was - an RPG, and while things like the dice masters will make them money in the short term, it just won't last, because its not core to what D&D really is.

 

[Dire Bare]

Most recently, the Star Trek clicks, which was dropped in favor of Attack Wing.

My previous experience with Wizkids has been primarily with Mechwarrior and their Pirates game with some Mageknight, all of which they ran into the ground by the arms race and 2.0 revisions that "invalidated" all the original stuff (I played primarily in tournaments). Luckily, Crimson Skies and Shadowrun never got off the ground, so I didn't burn much on that. To me, Wizkids has never shown any interest beyond squeezing every dime out of their customers they can, often resulting in lines that are badly balanced because there was little or no playtesting (and often visibly poor quality control) done in the rush to get things out. One of the best, recent examples: Attack Wing's Enterprise D model vs. TOS Enterprise vs. Reliant/Miranda class.

Yes, I loathe Wizkids. I've become very wary of their business practices, and only go into purchases of their product knowing that in most cases, the line will likely terminate in six months, or if it is successful it will need and entire rules revamp and invalidate everything prior to the new version. And such a revision tends to kill interest in the product line.

With all that said, my comments were originally aimed at the line managers at D&D. TSR, just prior to its fall, was thrashing about with a myriad of unsucessful game lines (Spellfire, Dragon Dice, Blood War, Needlepoint, etc.) because it seemed to be trying to find an alternate source of income because CCG's were killing RPGs. The current atmosphere - where we're seeing D&D boardgames, lego knock-offs, dice games and the like - basically anything and everything except RPG product, seems eerily similar to those days.

In the end, It feels like the D&D brand managers have given up on what D&D was - an RPG, and while things like the dice masters will make them money in the short term, it just won't last, because its not core to what D&D really is.

While I don't loathe WizKids or have a problem with how they do business, outside of the new D&D Dice Masters I am not a regular customer anymore. In the past, I did collect Mage Knight and HeroClix, although never played in the tournament scene. My issues with WizKids are similar to yours, in that how they manage their lines doesn't match up with what I want. However, I don't think they are bad actors who don't care about their fans or money grubbing capitalists out to squeeze every last drop out of the lucrative tabletop gaming market.

My first issue is the fast and furious release schedule they maintain for their games. I can't keep up! I'm a bit of a collector and a completionist, so just a few boosters of the latest HeroClix release wouldn't be enough, I'd have to try and get a full collection. And at my budget level (and storage space level), there is no way I could keep up with the current WizKids game lines that I am interested in, which include HeroClix, Pathfinder Battles, D&D miniatures, D&D Attack Wing, Star Trek Attack Wing, and now Dice Masters. In fact, they have too many cool games for me to keep up with! Dice Masters is their first game in a long time where I don't feel that anxiety.

My second issue is with quality of the miniatures they put out. I am not impressed overall with the sculpts, media (bendy plastic), and paintjob of their miniatures. However, I do accept that they don't do a better or worse job than any other prepainted miniature lines from any other company, and that these issues come with the game genre. I used to collect HeroClix, D&D Miniatures (WotC's version), and a few other prepainted miniature lines, but I've reached a point where the quality issues overcome my desire for lazy miniatures!

WizKids certainly has a decent list of games they produced and later cancelled, and you've jogged my memory on a few, like MechWarrior. And I do think they have an approach to releasing games that is somewhat scattershot, lots of games, lots of licenses, lots of expansions, not always a tight control over quality . . . hoping to see what sticks with fans. That's a business decision that might keep you from being a customer, but to "loathe" or denigrate the company is taking it a bit too far, IMO. And it's an approach that seems to work for them, as they have been VERY successful in the tabletop market. I don't have a problem with them taking older games like MechWarrior and "clixing" them, I don't have a problem with them canceling game lines that are no longer meeting their goals (Pirates, MechWarrior, Crimson Skies), and I don't really have a problem with how they approach their business, even though it doesn't work for me as a consumer. I don't even have a problem with them coming up with new editions of their games that make playing older releases on the tournament circuit difficult. They don't "score" worse in that category than any other game company, IMO.

Comparing WizKids to TSR and WotC is fair enough up to a point. I think it's silly to claim that any of the three companies didn't care about their games or their fans and were simply trying to squeeze out every last cent from the lucrative tabletop gaming market. TSR put out a lot of good games that were fun and folks loved to play, including Dragon Dice and Spellfire. In the end, it turns out they were not a well run company and had a number of problems that led to their demise, including tons of unsold Dragon Dice AND D&D rpg products . . . probably some unsold Spellfire in that warehouse too! Do (or did) any of these companies "lose sight" of their core brand? Perhaps, but that's armchair quarterbacking with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. It makes perfect sense for TSR back in the day and for WotC now to grow the D&D brand into "sister games" and licensed products to increase profits and brand awareness. Of course, that can be done well or done poorly, TSR did it poorly. Is WotC? Time will tell, but I have confidence that things are alright.

WotC has taken a new slower approach with their core game D&D, which while somewhat disappointing to some fans, makes PERFECT sense to me. And they have decided to license out things they previously handled in-house, like the miniatures and board games. Which doesn't bother me at all, as neither line seems to have taken a hit in quality, the only difference being the logos on the back of the boxes. They are also expanding out their licensing to new(ish) areas, like collectible games (Dice Masters), toys, and comics. How this is seen as evidence that they don't care about the RPG itself or that they are "thrashing" about trying to find profit is silly, IMO. Do the Star Wars movies suffer from the sheer amount of licensed product surrounding them? Star Wars has a long history of crappy licensed products alongside the good stuff, but the brand seems to be doing just fine with new movies coming out soon, TV shows, and robust novel and comic lines . . . not to mention the toys. D&D isn't at the level of Star Wars to be sure, but it has that potential if managed right. Perhaps WotC will be able to make that happen, perhaps not, but I don't begrudge them trying.

At the end of the day, it doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the game.