Dark Sun 4e: Can it work?

[Verys Arkon]

I'd love to see Dark Sun as the third setting book. In the meantime, Campaign Classic articles would be a really nice place to see some of the basics return.

Here are some of my thoughts:

Ability Scores
Kept the same as core 4e. Increased ability scores actually make it easier to survive, which is the opposite of what Dark Sun should be about.

Races
Not allowed from the PHB: Tiefling, Dragonborn, Eladrin, Warforged
These races were never in the original Dark Sun setting. There isn’t much demonic influence, so no backstory for the Tieflings. Dragons on Athas are very specific – Dragonborn do not make sense. There wasn’t really the magic-using High Elf concept on Athas, so no Eladrin.

Modified from the PHB: Dwarves, Elves, Half-elves, Halflings, Humans.
The unique reflavoring of these classic races really made Dark Sun exciting and new. Bald Dwarves? Cannibal Halflings? Tall nomadic Elves? Mutated humans? Yes please.

New Races: Mul (half-dwarf), Half-giant, Thri-kreen
These were core to the feel of Dark Sun, and they MUST be in the new edition. Half-giants could be reduced in size (reflavored Goliaths from PHBII?).
Pterrans and Aarakocra I would leave out – flying PCs is something they want to get away from.

Classes
Keep these from the PH: Cleric (with elemental themes), Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Warlord
Keep these from PHII: Barbarian, Druid (with Dark Sun flavor), Shaman

Templar: I think the warlock and a pact with a Sorcerer King would work well, but the mechanics for pacts do not restrict the warlock to only choosing powers from their chosen pact. It means you would have fey, infernal, and star flavored powers in Dark Sun, and I don’t think they fit. I would scrap/reflavor the existing warlock powers, or design a new suite of powers. I don’t think Templar would be a good choice for Dark Sun’s signature class, as they are usually evil (or unaligned at best), tied to their home city-state, and ill-suited for a lot of heroic adventuring.

Defiler/Preserver: Two builds for the wizard (or sorcerer?) with a unique mechanic representing the impact of defiling.

Psionics: an absolute must for Dark Sun.

Gladiator: at first I thought “no, gladiator is just a fighter”, but in 4e a fighter is a defender, where I see gladiator as a striker. The ranger and rogue are too different from a gladiator to get away with reflavoring or paragon paths. This could be Dark Sun’s signature class (Swordmage for Forgotten Realms, Artificer for Eberron). There was a full 2e supplement for the gladiator (black softcover, IIRC).

Trader: I don’t think there is enough design space to make the trader a full class. Their 2e shtick was to make money, and I don’t think it would be wise to break the player economy (such as it is). A paragon path would be sufficient to represent the trader.

Bard: The Dark Sun bard doesn’t scream “Arcane Leader” to me, but assassin or spy instead – rogue would be fine, perhaps with a build and a few new powers to help flesh it out, along with paragon path(s).

Artificier – not in Dark Sun. Leave it in its signature setting – Eberron.

Paladin – not in Dark Sun. The concept of self-sacrifice for others is too alien on Athas.

Swordmage – not in Dark Sun. Arcane power is taboo on Dark Sun already, and the idea of a swordmage just doesn’t work for me. I’d leave it in Forgotten Realms as its signature class were arcane power is common.

For the setting itself, I fall into the ‘reboot’ group; scrap the expanded material and return to the original boxed set. Brom’s art made Dark Sun come to life – get him back if at all possible!

Verys

PS Here is my Thri-Kreen from a homebrew 4e campaign.

Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity. Thri-kreen are strong and quick, but they think differently from most humanoids and have a hard time relating to folk of other races.
Size: Medium
Speed:7
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common

Skill Bonuses: +2 Nature, +2 Athletics (+5 bonus to Stealth while in sandy or arid environments)

Exoskeleton: A thri-kreen's exoskeleton gives it +4 natural AC +1 every 5 levels . It does not stack with manufactured armor, and cannot be enchanted. It is considered light armor, and you may add either your dexterity or intelligence modifier to AC.

Multi-limbed: Moving an item from one claw to an empty claw is a free action. A thri-kreen's second set of arms (lower), are too weak to wield any weapon except off-hand weapons. It may carry a light shield or implement instead. A thri-kreen with the two-weapon fighting or two-weapon defense feats gets an additional +1 bonus to damage or AC when all four limbs carry weapons (Note, a single two-handed weapon and two off-handed weapons is possible, but not two two-handed weapons).

Know Direction: A thri-kreen always knows which direction is north while above ground.

Great Leap
A thri-kreen's powerful hind legs allow it to leap high into the air.
Encounter
Minor Action Personal
Effect: Shift up to 5 squares away as a jump. Vertical distance cleared equals 1/4 distance jumped (6' for a 5 square jump).


Poison Bite
Poison is injected into the Thri-kreen's victim after it is bitten
Daily {} Poison
Standard Action Melee
Target: One creature
Attack: Constitution vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 damage and Dazed (save ends).
Miss: Target is dazed until the end of your next turn.

http://forums.gleemax.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=16810222

 

[Obryn]

Remember, the 4e Paladin is not (necessarily) a lawful good crusader for justice. I like them as Templars, personally.

Also, your thri-kreen are far more powerful than the existing PC races... The bite alone is substantial, since it has an on-miss effect. And the Leap as a Minor action is pretty gigantic. Probably the biggest problem is with the natural armor, imho. It's better than Hide, at no cost, and improves without any resource loss. I'd probably give attribute bonuses to Dex and Wisdom, fwiw.

-O

 

[Klaus]

How's this for 'kreen:

Thri-kreen
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Wisodm. Thri-kreen are agile and perceptive.
Size: Medium
Speed:6
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common, Kreen.

Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Nature

Weapon Proficiency: Thri-kreen are proficient with chachkas and treat gythkas as military melee weapons. (chachkas = large shuriken; gythkas = bastard sword, but staff group instead of heavy blade, and not versatile).

Four-armed: Thri-kreen can wield weapons designed for creatures one size larger than themselves as if they were designed for creatures of their size (mechanically, = Oversized).

Great Leap: As the Rogue Utility 2 exploit, even if the character isn't trained in Athletics.

Resist Poison 5 + half-level.

 

[Korgoth]

Isn't part of the fun of Dark Sun the whole ambiance of an alien world with harsh environmental factors, etc.? I'm not sure if that could be maintained with all the shifting and sliding game effects.

 

[The Little Raven]

Isn't part of the fun of Dark Sun the whole ambiance of an alien world with harsh environmental factors, etc.? I'm not sure if that could be maintained with all the shifting and sliding game effects.

...?

How does being able to knock someone back in any way change the ambiance of a harsh desert world where dehydration is the leading cause of death?

 

[Dausuul]

Paladin – not in Dark Sun. The concept of self-sacrifice for others is too alien on Athas.

What does self-sacrifice for others have to do with paladins? This isn't 3E. Paladins can be chaotic evil now.

In regards to the setting being cut off from the planes - I really see no need for that in 4E. It was necessary in 2E because 2E tried to shoehorn all of its myriad settings into a single uber-cosmology; the existence of Planescape and Spelljammer meant that if Athas had not been cut off, there would have been a mass exodus, and the other settings would have been invaded by hordes of super-tough Athasian warriors led by the sorceror-kings.

Which would actually have been a really cool storyline, but not quite in keeping with the flavor of Dark Sun.

Anyway, from what I can tell, 4E is sticking with 3E's decision to abolish the "every setting in the same universe" concept. Therefore, Dark Sun can have its own take on the Feywild, Shadowfell, Elemental Tempest, and Astral Sea, without having to worry about Athasians invading other settings.

 

[Ishmayl]

Hell, I'd rather see warforged in a revised Dark Sun than tieflings.

I actually think WarForged could play a reasonable role in Athas.

I never made it past 2nd edition Dark Sun - I read the Tribe of One series, played a couple small campaigns. I think if they brought it back with 4E, done right, it would be a great way to spark some life back into the setting. I guess that whole "done right" thing is pretty important, as we've seen with 4E FR, but I still have some decent faith that WotC can get some good settings out.

 

[Obryn]

I don't know that WotC could ever make a Dark Sun I'd enjoy more than the original 2e boxed set... Still, I'd love for them to give it a shot so I'd have the building blocks to do it myself.

IMHO, Dark Sun suffered worse than any other setting when it comes to stuff happening in novels that the PCs themselves should have been doing. "Hey, look at this awesome setting! It's got crazy plot hooks, and tons of neat stuff. Now, here, let's fix most of that for you..." I really disliked the Post-Prism-Pentad era, but by then I wasn't playing much Dark Sun anyways, so I suppose it was academic.

-O

 

[Irda Ranger]

Paladins - annointed by the Sorcerer-Kings, these so-called "templars" are the hands of the kings in his domain. Few turn against their masters, and are hunted down implacably.

Maybe my memory is deserting me, but I remember Templars as primarily being spellcasters. I also think a Templar would be better suited for the Leader or Controller role, as the Half-Giants were the muscle.

I'm not opposed in principle to reconcepting the Paladin rules for DS, but I can't think of what that might be for at this time. I also wouldn't want to lock down the roleplaying options of the class to "Templar" and "renegade Templar."

Lastly, I don't think it will be necessary to recycle all the 4E classes in PHB1. We'll have another PHB or two before DS comes out (if it comes out), including the Psionic one, so there will be plenty of classes to use. Barbarians and Psychic Warriors will certainly fit.

Warforged - rusted remnants of ancient armies from the last Green Age, they are looked upon like a symbol of the magic that tore Athas apart.

Warforged in DS? Now that's just uncalled for...

 

[Phaezen]

Just had a thought about WOTC's statement about all new setting material being regarded as core.

I think what they are trying to get at is that all setting material will be on the same power level as core and thus you will be able to hotplug any new 4e material into a core world. However, some settings may have suggestions about which classes and races may or may not be suitable to the particular setting. FR, Planescape and Eberron have the widest scope for allowing new classes and races into them, whereas settings such as Ravenloft and Darksun might see the suggested restrictions.

The feeling I get from reading through the FR Campaign Setting is that there seems to be a mindset change. The 3.x FR setting gives a feeling of this is the Forgotten Realms and this is how it works, have fun, to here are the building blocks of the realms, use them as you see fit and have fun. You can definately use the 4e material to run a 2e or 3e feel FR game.

The net result of this is that a group of people who enjoy the uniqe feeling of Ravenloft and Darksun will be highly annoyed if these settings get the same treatment, while others will enjoy the ability to add what they want to thier own worlds. The trick to approaching this should be to look if you can use the information given in the 4e campaign setting to run the type of game in the setting that you would like to, whether it is Ravenloft and Darksun with the 2e feel or some combination of these settings and heroic fantasy.

At the end of the day it comes down to the dm and players wilingness buying in to a setting and a mood for a campaign.

I hope this makes some kind of sense.

Phaezen