DARK SUN - Most Used City?

[Wik]

I dunno. I guess when I run Tyr, I run it as not really being "Free"... but more of a "lacking a Sorcerer King".

Which means it lacks a central authority (and the templars don't have spells). It lacks the protection of an SK (so, warfare). Everyone wants the iron mines (in fact, the iron mines are the only reason Tyr can survive as a free city).

My Tyr is a series of very divided factions - A noble quarter that provides safety and a roof over the head of scared slaves... basically offering indentured servitude to those who freely take it up in return for safety. The templars want control of the city, but know they can't have it, so they run the bureaucracy. The original heroes of the city (usually Rikus, but I have no qualms with it being the PCs) don't really know much about RUNNING a free city, and that shows in what happens. The Warrens are a very, VERY bad place. Old Kalak Loyalists do all sorts of bad things to the new guard.

Every day, when you approach Tyr, there's a huge stream of people that are leaving, seeking safety in one of the "tyrannical" city-states.

And there's a huge swatch of people flooding the gates coming in.... seeking the dream of "Freedom".

I'm a bit curious about all the people that have selected Nibenay. Why the particular love, there? Is it simply the Ivory Triangle Boxed set? Or is it something more? What is it that makes Nibenay such an awesome place to play in?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Wik, I do like all those things, I just think it's a little problematic in Tyr. I don't think they're that necessary, though they're interesting, so they don't do much harm and only good. The niggling detail for me is that Tyr is the iconic DS city-state; Tyr should be "typical" in most ways, which should probably include a sorcerer-king, at least for the first 20 or so levels.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The niggling detail for me is that Tyr is the iconic DS city-state; Tyr should be "typical" in most ways, which should probably include a sorcerer-king, at least for the first 20 or so levels.

Is Tyr the "iconic" DS city-state, though? I mean, yes, there's a region named for it, and yes, the bulk of the published adventures/stories involve it. But I think there's at least some argument to be made that many of those stories involve Tyr because of the very events that made it different.

I think there's at least some room for a chicken-and-egg debate as to whether the 2E DS setting focused so heavily on Tyr because it was a free state almost from the get-go.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I think there's at least some room for a chicken-and-egg debate as to whether the 2E DS setting focused so heavily on Tyr because it was a free state almost from the get-go.

I assume that any free city (even not well held togather ones) would be a central point of any adventures... I think we need A free city...

 

[GAAAHHH]

What if Kalak faked his death? Perhaps he tired of ruling. Maybe he wanted to see what would happen in his absence.

Maybe he even rules in secret from his hidden base in the old city, and the revolution was a sham carried out by his most trusted Templars. This way his enemies are out in the open, and nobody knows he is still a threat.

 

[Wik]

Yeah, I really think Tyr was set up to be the free state from the start. So in my mind, it was supposed to be different. I think the "Tyr Region" description was a mistake - it should have just been called "the Tablelands" and left at that.

I don't really know how iconic original set Tyr was, though - it really had nothing setting it apart from states like Urik and Nibenay (both of which were mesopotamian in nature, sort of like Tyr... though Nibenay has some pretty strong eastern influences, too).

 

[Korgoth]

I agree. I think that, for a setting like Dark Sun, mood and theme are vital. But I don't think a free Tyr at all contradicts that. As I said, if it's written and played right--if it's a cesspool of warring factions, violent crime, and rampant corruption--then the fact that it's "free" doesn't in any way make it better, easier, or safer.

I'd strenuously argue against having any more than one free city. But I maintain that having a single one, if done right, opens up adventure possibilities that do not, in any way, violate the moods or themes of Dark Sun.

I dunno... a "free" city still seems kind of hopeful to me. Which suggests more of a possible campaign goal than a default state.

It would be interesting to see Tyr become a free city only to be laid waste because of that fact. Maybe the other sorcerer kings put aside their differences momentarily to squash the upstarts (like most everybody tried to do versus the Bolsheviks)... and of course they probably succeed. Lacking a sorcerer king of its own, and suffering from squabbling and short-sightedness, Tyr succumbs to the combined might of the others.

Which of course would be the PC's fault.

 

[Danzauker]

I don't really like the idea of a free city in Dark Sun because part of the point of Dark Sun is that the world never lets up, you never catch a break, it's just an unrelenting series of bloody trials until you die or rise to the top.

Quite agree. I'll never like a Dark Sun with a free city the way Tyr was after Freedom.

Better, I'd never accept a sorcerer-king less city-state in Dark Sun. It's the real focal point of the setting. The sorcerer-kings are supposedly immortal and omnipotent.

If I want a place where the PCs can start the campaign, where there is lot's of intrigue and roleplay possibilities and central point of adventures, I'd prefer a satellite town of a city-state, or a slave village in the wasteland.

I know Tyr was always supposed to be free from the start, but that's what I always thought to be one of the greatest errors in the DS line.

Why should a campaign revolve around a city? DS is not Planescape or Eberron. Tyr is not Sigil or Sharn. The city-states in Athas are not places where people want to go. They are places where people want to run FROM.

I'd have a city, though, where the ruling sorcerer-cink is absent, not interested in city politics and management, or completely absorbed in rituals to become a dragon, so that the PCs have an easier life and adventures can revolve more around templars and nobles fighting for power. That's the way I've always run Tyr and Kalak.

 

[Mark Hope]

I'm a bit curious about all the people that have selected Nibenay. Why the particular love, there? Is it simply the Ivory Triangle Boxed set? Or is it something more? What is it that makes Nibenay such an awesome place to play in?

For me, there are several reasons:

It's nice and big, with several different districts (including cliffside noble enclaves, a haunted market district, and the awesome Plain of Burning Water.

The Shadow King is a great ruler. Frequently rumoured to be demised, he has a hands-off policy towards his city, concentrating on personal, esoteric interests. Yet when something demands his attention, he gets involved personally. This "sliding-scale overlord" is great for a DM who wants flexibility in how his sorcerer-king behaves.

His templars are fascinating. The King's Wives are divided up into some really innovative groups, including an internal secret police that watches over the other templars. Always wanted to run a "CSI Nibenay" game, based entirely within the templarate.

A local elf tribe, with a neat backstory at the outset of play, and a thoroughly detailed elven market.

Layers upon layers of civilisation, heaped one atop the other. The oldest parts of the cities predate recorded local history, as do the mysterious catacombs below Nibenay.

The whole "decadent nobles lost in drug-dreams" thing. Inspired by Moorcock's Melnibone (almost the same name!), Nibenay's nobles and its House Shom are a great sinister backdrop, quite unlike the meddling political nobles of Tyr, for example.

Great local environment - Crescent Forest, Great Salt Plain, Mekillot and Windbreak Mountains and Plain of Buning Water all immediately near the city, with Giustenal and the Silt Sea only a few days away.

It's look and feel - mad carvings everywhere, multi-level streets, cyclopean stone monuments and statues, immense civic structures. Local elves call the city "The Basilisk" because it seems like everything there is slowly being turned to stone.

A killer bard's quarter that allows me to lift plots wholesale out of "The Wire"!

A believable setup for elemental cults, with only a handful of little temples doing their thing, each with its own solid plot hooks attached.

The on/off war with Gulg and the total contrast between Nibenese and Gulg cultures - makes for a great "we fear the Other" element in the game.

The local chapter of the Veiled Alliance is truly weird, with a freakish spirit-entity called the Zwuun tied to the chapter - and also to the fantastic "Dark Sun Zombie Apocalypse!" adventure Marauders of Nibenay.

etc. etc. Nibenay all the way!

 

[Mouseferatu]

I dunno... a "free" city still seems kind of hopeful to me. Which suggests more of a possible campaign goal than a default state.

It's hopeful in theory. It absolutely needn't be in practice.

Without going into too much detail--which would inevitably violate the board's policies--history shows lots of times when the overthrow of a dictator or oppressive regime made things worse. Either more people suffered and died in the ensuing chaos and/or the power that eventually filled the vacuum was even more brutal than the prior one.

And let's be honest: How many of the factions struggling for control of a free Tyr are people you'd want to have ruling over you?

It would be interesting to see Tyr become a free city only to be laid waste because of that fact.

See, that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. There's a story/adventure/campaign idea that you couldn't have without a free city-state, but which is still completely in-keeping with Dark Sun.

I'd never accept a sorcerer-king less city-state in Dark Sun. It's the real focal point of the setting. The sorcerer-kings are supposedly immortal and omnipotent.

The sorcerer-kings were never omnipotent. Astoundingly powerful, yes, but not never omnipotent. Even the very first boxed set talks about (for instance) Tectuktitlay as being one of the "weaker" sorcerer-kings--and if some are more powerful than others, then by definition they can't be all-powerful.