Darkvision and mirrors?

[The Blow Leprechaun]

I'd personally prefer that the answer is no, for flavor sake, but perhaps there are special dark mirrors, or perhaps metals such as cold iron reflect darkvision.

Yeah, even with the wavelengths arguments I think any mirror that could be useful in this situation would have to be specially made to work with darkvision. Since cold iron costs double, a cold iron mirror would cost 20gp, which seems really low to me if I was going to HR this sort of thing. While the item isn't all that useful, it would probably be very rare (and thus more expensive!).

 

[lukelightning]

It explains why dwarves have the charisma penalty...no mirrors!

 

[mvincent]

From the 3.5 FAQ (if desired):
"Does darkvision allow a character to read and write in
the dark? Can he see his reflection in a mirror?
Darkvision is described as the “ability to see with no light
source at all” (Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 292). This
suggests that a character with darkvision can read, write, and
otherwise perform a normal range of actions despite being in
complete darkness.
The simplest answer to the mirror question is yes. To avoid
delving too deeply into real-world physics—something it’s best
to resist, particularly in fantasy gaming—it’s easiest to treat
darkvision as allowing a character to perceive anything that a
normal person could see with light."

Note that this topic has been discussed in some detail before (here, here, and in some older threads that are no longer available).

I don't know of everything that mirrors can reflect, but I reckon it's possible for them to reflect some things in spectrums we can't perceive (i.e. things we don't call 'light', possibly in a range below 4,000 angstroms or above 7,700).

According to some legends, they can even reflect souls (which I think explained vampires aversion to them).

(btw: while in the military, I seem to remember using a mirror to apply my cammo paint in the dark with night vision goggles. But I was possibly tired and confused. Any other grunts do that?)

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

Taking for granted that one can see a reflection in a mirror if you possess darkvision, I don't agree with the limitation of range.

I think only the mirror would have to be in range of your darkvision. Your eyes are not bouncing off the mirror and then continuing on to see something around the corner. You are seeing the mirror. Anything reflected in the mirror would be visible to you, provided it is large enough to be seen. Presumably the mirror is reflecting it even if you can't see it, so the mirror has no need of your darkvision to show the object.

 

[lukelightning]

Taking for granted that one can see a reflection in a mirror if you possess darkvision, I don't agree with the limitation of range.

So if you hold up a mirror you can now see an unlimited distance in the dark?

 

[Ilium]

Taking for granted that one can see a reflection in a mirror if you possess darkvision, I don't agree with the limitation of range.

I think only the mirror would have to be in range of your darkvision. Your eyes are not bouncing off the mirror and then continuing on to see something around the corner. You are seeing the mirror. Anything reflected in the mirror would be visible to you, provided it is large enough to be seen. Presumably the mirror is reflecting it even if you can't see it, so the mirror has no need of your darkvision to show the object.

If you allow this a clever player can extend his darkvision by using mirrors, which just seems odd to say the least.

 

[kreynolds]

Yeah, I agree with Ilium. I think to keep it simple, I'd just consider the overall distance. For example, if the character has darkvision 60 feet, and the mirror is 20 feet away reflecting a hallway, then he can see up to the mirror, and 40 feet worth of the hallway in the reflection.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

So if you hold up a mirror you can now see an unlimited distance in the dark?

No, you can only see what you would normally see reflected in a mirror. Does holding up a normal mirror in daylight allow you to see an unlimited distance? Things that are too far away aren't going to show up at all, and even things that do show up may be completely unrecognizable. Especially consider that most mirrors we're talking about here are only a few inches in diameter, and realistically my opinion is more limiting than giving it the range of darkvision.

 

[lukelightning]

and realistically my opinion is more limiting than giving it the range of darkvision.

No, your definition is not more limiting; you are explicitly saying that there is no range limit for darkvision when used in conjunction with a mirror. Just because some mirrors are small doesn't mean all mirrors are small. It makes no sense that you can see further in a reflection than you can unaided.

 

[Cabled]

Yeah, even with the wavelengths arguments I think any mirror that could be useful in this situation would have to be specially made to work with darkvision. Since cold iron costs double, a cold iron mirror would cost 20gp, which seems really low to me if I was going to HR this sort of thing. While the item isn't all that useful, it would probably be very rare (and thus more expensive!).

Given the number of fairly civilized races running around with Darkvision, I'd rather think that mirrors that worked with darkvision would be just as common as regular ones, they'd just be for sale in different markets.