Dave Noonan's reading list (& Maneuver Warfare in D&D)

[Olgar Shiverstone]

My respect for Dave Noonan just went up a couple of notches based on his comment "Robert Leonhard would be proud ..." in his latest blog.

That's some pretty heavy reading on his list. Though Sun Tzu is pretty common reading these days (heck, it's now made the first episode of Survivor), Leonhard is a name that only comes up in truly hardcore military reading lists, along with other maneuverists like the original Bill Lind, John Boyd, Robert Hooker, Hart, Guderian, Musashi, and free thinkers like Doug MacGregor ....

Funny how you suddenly think a guy is smarter just because he's reading the same books that are on your own bookshelf.

Any other interesting books on your reading list, Dave? And care to go into some depth about how you are applying the tenets of maneuver warfare to 4E D&D? Kind of hard to apply OODA loops in a turn-based game, but maybe with per-encounter power recharge ...

 

[Fathead]

My respect for Dave Noonan just went up a couple of notches based on his comment "Robert Leonhard would be proud ..." in his latest blog.

That's some pretty heavy reading on his list. Though Sun Tzu is pretty common reading these days (heck, it's now made the first episode of Survivor), Leonhard is a name that only comes up in truly hardcore military reading lists, along with other maneuverists like the original Bill Lind, John Boyd, Robert Hooker, Hart, Guderian, Musashi, and free thinkers like Doug MacGregor ....

Funny how you suddenly think a guy is smarter just because he's reading the same books that are on your own bookshelf.

I know what you mean. My respect for the man went up a notch when he admitted to being a fan of the Babysitters Club series as well. My own bookshelf is crammed with those little gems! That's a name only mentioned by men with plenty of self esteem to spare! A man who reads both the Babysitters Club AND hardcore miliatary strategy...now THAT is a man.

 

[WotC_Dave]

I know what you mean. My respect for the man went up a notch when he admitted to being a fan of the Babysitters Club series as well. My own bookshelf is crammed with those little gems! That's a name only mentioned by men with plenty of self esteem to spare! A man who reads both the Babysitters Club AND hardcore miliatary strategy...now THAT is a man.

OK, I admit it, you got me, Fathead...I actually went back through my blog entries, asking myself, "I didn't really cite the Babysitters Club, did I?"

And that's a good idea, Olgar. I'll do a blog entry in the next few days about good nonfiction books for dudes who think about D&D a lot.

--Dave.

 

[D'karr]

Kind of hard to apply OODA loops in a turn-based game, but maybe with per-encounter power recharge ...

Oh, I don't know but OODA loops are exactly what a turn based system emulates. It's just that with cyclical initiative the initiative loser will usually be more on the reactive. Unless he can do something that gets him into the initiative winner's OODA loop.

Loopy ain't it. And you left Clausewitz out of your list...

 

[Scribble]

I know what you mean. My respect for the man went up a notch when he admitted to being a fan of the Babysitters Club series as well. My own bookshelf is crammed with those little gems! That's a name only mentioned by men with plenty of self esteem to spare! A man who reads both the Babysitters Club AND hardcore miliatary strategy...now THAT is a man.

Dave Noonan.... The Most revered babysitter of all time...

"Babies... Ready yourselves... Today we meet in battle with Elmo and his Bloodthirsty Dark Warriors of Sesame."

 

[D'karr]

Dave Noonan.... The Most revered babysitter of all time...

"Babies... Ready yourselves... Today we meet in battle with Elmo and his Bloodthirsty Dark Warriors of Sesame."

Prepare for Glory!!! For tonight we get our cookies and milk in HELL!!!!

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Oh, I don't know but OODA loops are exactly what a turn based system emulates. It's just that with cyclical initiative the initiative loser will usually be more on the reactive. Unless he can do something that gets him into the initiative winner's OODA loop.

Loopy ain't it. And you left Clausewitz out of your list...

That's because Clauswitz isn't a maneuverist on the whole, though elements of his writings parallel classical maneuver theory.

Fixed initiative doesn't simulate an OODA loop because it is just that, fixed. If we want to better simulate OODA loops in D&D, you need a way for the more agile/smarter/flexible/maneuverable combatant to gradually creep up in the initiative order, so that eventually he acts twice before his opponent with the slower OODA loop acts (this is the F86 v MiG-15 analogy). At that point he's inside his enemy's decision cycle.

It still really isn't a loop, because the turn-based nature of the game doesn't force time constraints on the opponent. Since each combatant sees each of the other combatant's moves and can consider them before reacting, it really isn't possible to truly turn inside your opponent's decision cycle.

Other maneuver principles can apply though (surfaces & gaps, indirect approach, etc).

 

[Baduin]

OODA loop in turn-based game? Very easy - you use hidden written orders.

At the beginning of the round (or after ending you previous turn) each player writes down orders for his character (eg attack X, cast spell Y at Z, move, retreat). At his initiative, he executes his written down order. He can do something else by sacrificing a move action.

Swift actions and immediate actions don't need to be written down.