Death Kight Template

[zypherillius]

Ive got a blessed of gruumph im about to level out in, and i was looking at applying the death knight template.
The upsides would be great, being immune to almost everything, and having the abyssal blast, but when it comes to special abilities and hit dice, ive got a problem.
when i apply the death knight template, id lose all the hit points i gained from the constitution bonus earned before becoming undead, essentially losing half my hit points, right? also, the death knight keeps all abilities, and if i decide to rage, does it still effect me? taking it like the spell, id say it doesnt because its a mind effecting ability, and undead are not subject to mind effecting abilities?
help!

 

[Alzrius]

The loss of hit points is an inevitable byproduct of being undead. The undead from the Monster Manual III have the unholy toughness special quality, which lets them gain bonus hit points based on Charisma, but death knights don't have that. If you want the unholy toughness quality, I recommend purchasing Feats of Undeath from the EN Gamestore (only $0.49!) which lets you take that quality as a feat.

In regards to undead raging, undead creatures with the ability to rage keep that ability, and it works for them normally. According to the 3.0 FAQ, they rage for (3 + Cha bonus) rounds. They gain no benefit from the +4 Con bonus that raging normally gives.

Also, if you're going to use the Death Knight template, use the Death Knight of Krynn version, from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. It's more powerful, and much truer to the classic death knight than the watered down version in the Monster Manual II.

 

[Nightfall]

Not to mention it offers more power for your buck.

 

[Cheiromancer]

The loss of hit points is an inevitable byproduct of being undead. The undead from the Monster Manual III have the unholy toughness special quality, which lets them gain bonus hit points based on Charisma, but death knights don't have that. If you want the unholy toughness quality, I recommend purchasing Feats of Undeath from the EN Gamestore (only $0.49!) which lets you take that quality as a feat.

Is unholy toughness only worth a feat? The version in Feats of Undeath has no prerequisites (other than being undead), and I'm wondering if that's a little too good. Look at Improved Toughness, say; it only gives +1 hp/HD. For many high Cha undead this is worth several times as much. I thought I saw someone (UK?) rate unholy toughness as +1 CR: that's a lot more than a feat. This is all just theoretical, though.

What was your reasoning, Alzrius, behind balancing it?

Nice pdf, btw.

 

[Alzrius]

Is unholy toughness only worth a feat? The version in Feats of Undeath has no prerequisites (other than being undead), and I'm wondering if that's a little too good. Look at Improved Toughness, say; it only gives +1 hp/HD. For many high Cha undead this is worth several times as much. I thought I saw someone (UK?) rate unholy toughness as +1 CR: that's a lot more than a feat. This is all just theoretical, though.

What was your reasoning, Alzrius, behind balancing it?

Nice pdf, btw.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked the PDF!

My reasoning was that it's not so much the amount of hit points that it grants, as it is the average hit points per die (or alternately, per Challenge Rating).

Undead have, comparatively, the least hit points per die (or at least potential for hit points per die) of all creature types. Even most Constructs will edge them out due to their bonus hit points. Furthermore, even with their slew of immunities, many of those don't apply in most situations regarding fighting PCs - particularly in melee, making them relatively weak creatures.

Giving them the same opportunity for bonus hit points didn't seem unbalancing (anymore than the MMIII Undead seemed unbalanced) - it just assures that they're on the same level as other kinds of monsters. The bottom line is that Undead have to pay a feat slot to get the same level of bonus hit points other creature types get for free.

 

[Whimsical]

Consider the whirling frenzy rage variant for your undead. It doesn't increase your CON, but it does other stuff. Same with the barbarian variant in Player's Handbook II