Death of the LGS

[Storyteller01]

So, have we gotten anywhere in the last couple of pages with helpful information about how to help the LGS attract RPG customers?

Cater to other games they play. The larger surviving stores carry multiple games (board, video, books, etc). We carry GW as well as supply mutliple hobbies. RPG's are on the downswing as far as local stores are concerned.

 

[Cadfan]

My point was, which I should have made more explicit, is that it's too short a time span from Leegin to actually infer anything from WotC's behavior. Legal departments move slowly and cautiously when dealing with new law.

The fact that they chose not to implement price floors for 4E doesn't really say anything one way or another whether WotC believes price floors are a good idea.

Fair enough.

 

[Emryys]

Cater to other games they play. The larger surviving stores carry multiple games (board, video, books, etc). We carry GW as well as supply mutliple hobbies. RPG's are on the downswing as far as local stores are concerned.

Most of the stores in my locale are "Geek Emporiums"...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As an FYI, the biggest LGS in my area recently moved their main store.

They are now located 2 blocks from a university, 2 blocks from a major public high-school, just off of a major thoroghfare...and have increased their gaming space by adding a completely separate gaming area in the suite adjacent to the store (it has a 1-way passthrough for staff).

They are anticipating gooooooood things happening to their bottom line.

 

[Torx]

I'm quite fascinated by this thread, and felt I must contribute. I haven't made it past page 3, so I apologize if this is redundant.

I followed the link to your web site, and like ironvyper, I have hefty expectations of businesses' online presences.

Your website in this age of business is both your commercial and your business location.

I must say, I was not terribly impressed with your website. There are content errors such as, "We're open 7 days a week [...] We're closed Mondays." Those suggest poor editing, and thus, poor attention to detail. And, as ironvyper mentioned, "under construction" pages are a big no-no. Those suggest you're too lazy to complete a site. Better to just leave the links out for the time being.

After viewing your web site, it gave me a rather poor impression of your store. Then I read this:

We fixed the place up a great deal--removed the gamer funk, modernized the place so it looked like a real retail space instead of a 1970s throwback, put in flooring, improved customer service, added lots of add-on services and basically renovated both the place and its image.

All the renovations you did for your storefront you must do to your web site too. Your web site has the late '90s feel - which is the equivalent of having the '70s RPG store feel.

I'm sure there are many gamers like me (I, admittedly, have never really frequently FLGSs for many reasons which have been echoed in previous pages) who will check if a business has a web site before actually driving to the location. If the web site is poor, I will likely skip the trip altogether.

My advice would be to upgrade that web site. You already have a leg up in that you have an amazing amount of content - the hardest thing to come by. You just need to give the site a facelift.

Start asking your regulars if any of them do web design, work trades or whatever you can to get a clean, modern, professional site. You could probably add an amazing amount of functionality too. You'd be amazed what you can accomplish.

Good luck to you, sir!

 

[Corjay]

Okay, well, as you go through the thread, don't respond to any of the economics and politics stuff. It took a forklift, a jackhammer, and a moderator's threat to get that discussion to stop, and we'd hate for the thread to close.

 

[Umbran]

Is it OK to ask for a clarification? What I'm wondering is whether economics (which this discussion seems like it has to include, since it's about the economic status of the LGS) can be discussed and defined as long as political statements/opinions are left out?

Sorry to take so long to address this question - we ask that questions about moderation be taken to e-mail in part so you don't have to wait for us to notice them

To answer this - perhaps people have lost the reason why we have a No Politics rule. We have it because discussion of politics turns out to be bad for a site that it trying to be large, family-friendly, and about RPGs. All too often, discussion of such things starts heated arguments, which we moderators need to step in on.

So, assume that I've read the thread (which I have). Does it seem like a bunch of people who can be trusted to discuss such topics without getting into an argument? If I say, "it is okay, go ahead," how likely is it that I or another mod will have to come back in here to warn people, discipline someone, or close the thread?

Some of you would be fine. Others have demonstrated an approach to discussion that would make further moderation necessary.

This board isn't about economic theory, in depth. I really don't think discussion of "economic liberalism" is really required to understand the current plight of the FLGS, and what store owners can do to help themselves.

 

[gamersgambit]

So, have we gotten anywhere in the last couple of pages with helpful information about how to help the LGS attract RPG customers?

I would have to say that yes, we have, as well as started a very interesting series of discussions regarding Wizards.

Now let me share another area of interest, and see how this comes out:

I'm also having trouble rationalizing keeping products other than Wizards and White Wolf on my shelves. Admittedly, I have about 16 square feet dedicated to them...but they aren't moving. I carry a selection of Rifts, Hero, and Shadowrun as well as whatever else I can come up with that's new and interesting (Grimm was a big seller; as was WH40KRPG.)

If you could choose what products that weren't White Wolf or Wizards on the shelves (including 3rd party 4th edition companies), what would you stock?

What sort of games would you like to see demo'd?

Also...perhaps more importantly: How would you structure a 10-minute D&D demo to a new person who wanted to know about the game?

A customer of mine used to work in a GW store and said that the keywords there were "Fast, Fun, and Furious". They'd ignore the more complex rules and had a short demo that would have people get excited about the game. I'd like to do this for 4E, and have a few ideas, but I'm curious what you guys think.

P.S.: I especially appreciate the comments re: my website, and am working to find someone now who can fix it up.

 

[ironvyper]

We'd have heard about it by now. Amazon or B&N seeing possible legal action from wizards would be industry news.

They won't do anything. Much as we want to believe otherwise, wizards sn't big enough to go after these companies. They can't afford to.

WoTC might not be big enough. But Hasbro absolutely is. and if amazon or anyone else was breaking the established rules and damaging Hasbro's income then u can bet your butt that Hasbro can and would take them to court to get thier money back. Thats one of the only advantages for D@D to be part of a big company.

Which brings the legality of some of these discounting practices into play. Is borders or amazon or barns and nobles really killing the local stores all on thier own, releasing early at a huge discout on thier own, or are they maybe doing these things with the total support of WoTC and hasbro?

 

[ironvyper]

I would have to say that yes, we have, as well as started a very interesting series of discussions regarding Wizards.

Now let me share another area of interest, and see how this comes out:

I'm also having trouble rationalizing keeping products other than Wizards and White Wolf on my shelves. Admittedly, I have about 16 square feet dedicated to them...but they aren't moving. I carry a selection of Rifts, Hero, and Shadowrun as well as whatever else I can come up with that's new and interesting (Grimm was a big seller; as was WH40KRPG.)

If you could choose what products that weren't White Wolf or Wizards on the shelves (including 3rd party 4th edition companies), what would you stock?

What sort of games would you like to see demo'd?

Also...perhaps more importantly: How would you structure a 10-minute D&D demo to a new person who wanted to know about the game?

A customer of mine used to work in a GW store and said that the keywords there were "Fast, Fun, and Furious". They'd ignore the more complex rules and had a short demo that would have people get excited about the game. I'd like to do this for 4E, and have a few ideas, but I'm curious what you guys think.

P.S.: I especially appreciate the comments re: my website, and am working to find someone now who can fix it up.

Other then WoTC and WW i would have warhammer dark heresy. Dispite games workshops unrelenting refusal to adapt to the 90's (never mind the new millennium) and utter determination to continue failing as a business this still sells well. I know the change to FFG is creating alot of uncertainty but its a great game with a loyal fanbase. Dont expect warhammer gamers to buy crap though. We proudly claim that we play an elitist game a step above D@D and wont buy or play any old crap. So preview any books that come out, stock a couple just in case. But really look for online reviews first from fans of that game before u buy. Paizos RPG will probably be the same. Lots of people dont like 4e and will buy something else, but they are also happy with the huge library they allready have and arent gonna buy any old crap.
e
The lesson is that your running a game store in a time when the gamer community is fragmenting and the economy is slowing. Your going to have to be much more careful in what you stock. If i was you i wouldnt stock anything that didnt have steller fan reviews and good online buzz. Maybe some really good indie RPGs wont get bought. Oh well, thats thier publishers and creators fault. Its not your job to support fringe games, its your job to make money and supply a product that your average consumer wants.

PS. If your doing drinks in your store then do fountain drinks not cans. I managed a 7-11 a few years ago and we got 5 gallon containers of fountain syrup for under 3$ each and those mixed 1/4 with water. The most expensive parts of our soda business were the cups, and they were very cheap. Offering refills for regular cups cuts that down even more. I know your gonna have to put out a couple grand to get the machine but vendors are desparate right now, you can get a great deal on fountain syrup. Its just food coloring, suger and water with some real basic flavor. Doesnt cost soda companies more then 25 cents a gallon to produce. Even if u bought for less bulk then a conveniance store you should get 4 or 5 dollars a gallon of mix, with is is 5 gallons of drink.

Impulse buys buy the counter and cheap snacks like hot dogs and tequitos at a competive price can make u a fortune too. My store did 1200 average profit a shift and over half of it was hot food, premade food (sandwiches) and soda. keep your store clean, your food fattening, cheap and easy and your money will roll in.