D&D 5E Debating Ranger vs fighter levels for level 13-17

ECMO3

Hero
So this is still a long way off, but I am plying in a 1-20 campaign with a Shaddar Kai Zhentilar's Finest Fighter/Fey Wanderer Ranger.

Eventually I will be level 12 (8 Fighter/4 Fey Wanderer). I debating whether to go to 8 Fey Wanderer and get Beguiling Twist before going back to fighter or to stop at 4 and keep going in fighter all the way to level 16 Fighter.

Her stats at this point: S20, D13, C12, I8, W16, CH10. Feats: Lucky, Heavy Armor Master, Shadow Touched (Wisodm/Cause Fear), proficiency: Animal handling, Perception, Athletics, Stealth, Persuasion (with +3 Wisdom bonus), Deception (with +3 Wisdom Bonus), Intimidation (With expertise, +5 Strength Bonus, +3 Wisdom Bonus).

Attuned items include ring of protection, cloak of elven kind, Longbow +2 which slows enemies by 10 feet if you hit. She also has a flametounge maul that is not attunement. She is mostly melee oriented.

Since Zhentilar's finest is not an official subclass here are the abilities for that subclass:
Intstill Fear (3rd level Fighter, already have): You’ve internalized the teachings of the Zhentarim to strike fear into your enemies while never showing fear yourself. As a bonus action on your turn, you can force a creature you can see that you dealt damage to this turn to make a Wisdom saving throw. The DC equals 10 or half of the damage you dealt, whichever number is higher. If the creature fails the save, it falls prone and is frightened for 1 minute. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Intimidation Tactics (7th level Fighter, already have): You’ve learned how to carry yourself in and out of battle to “encourage” others to see your way of thinking. Whenever you make a Charisma (Intimidation) check, you gain a bonus to the check equal to your Strength modifier. In addition, you can use your bonus action to force a creature you can see within 30 feet of you to make a Charisma (Intimidation) check contested by your Charisma (Intimidation) check. If you succeed, the creature’s next attack is reduced by the difference between your checks. You can use this bonus action a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Exhibit Might (10th level Fighter, don't have yet): You wield your weapon to not just harm your enemies, but to utterly destroy their psyche. When you attack a target that is frightened of you, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 18–20. When you score a critical hit on a creature that is frightened of you, it suffers the following additional effects until the end of its next turn: x The creature has disadvantage on Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma saving throws. x The creature’s movement speed becomes 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed.

Emboldened Strike (15th level Fighter, don't have yet): You take advantage of the moment of panic your enemies experience when they see you in battle. Immediately after you cause a creature within 5 feet of you to become frightened, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against it, provided you can see it. On this attack, when you roll a 1 on a damage die, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is 1. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

On one hand getting Beguiling Twist will mean a lot more enemies are frightened, especially since I can use a very low 10DC Instill fear to trigger a higher DC Wisdom-based frightened if he saves. Also gets her 2nd level spells (probably aid and silence). On the other hand it will take me longer to get 3x attacks and longer to get to the 18 crit against frightened enemies. Rest of party is Artificer, Druid and Fighter.
 
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i'd say get beguiling twist ASAP. the extra frightens will make exhibit might much stronger, and emboldened strike doesn't seem worth losing beguiling twist to me.

also, side note - what a weird subclass. instill fear is either trash or fine depending on if the DC is dependent on the total damage you dealt to the target on your turn or only on the strongest attack (i'm assuming it's dependent on the total damage). the bonus action from intimidation tactics is just broken. it makes bounded accuracy look like a joke.
 

So this is still a long way off, but I am plying in a 1-20 campaign with a Shaddar Kai Zhentilar's Finest Fighter/Fey Wanderer Ranger.

Eventually I will be level 12 (8 Fighter/4 Fey Wanderer). I debating whether to go to 8 Fey Wanderer and get Beguiling Twist before going back to fighter or to stop at 4 and keep going in fighter all the way to level 16 Fighter.

Her stats at this point: S20, D13, C12, I8, W16, CH10. Feats: Lucky, Heavy Armor Master, Shadow Touched (Wisodm/Cause Fear), proficiency: Animal handling, Perception, Athletics, Stealth, Persuasion (with +3 Wisdom bonus), Deception (with +3 Wisdom Bonus), Intimidation (With expertise, +5 Strength Bonus, +3 Wisdom Bonus).

Attuned items include ring of protection, cloak of elven kind, Longbow +2 which slows enemies by 10 feet if you hit. She also has a flametounge maul that is not attunement. She is mostly melee oriented.

Since Zhentilar's finest is not an official subclass here are the abilities for that subclass:
Intstill Fear (3rd level Fighter, already have): You’ve internalized the teachings of the Zhentarim to strike fear into your enemies while never showing fear yourself. As a bonus action on your turn, you can force a creature you can see that you dealt damage to this turn to make a Wisdom saving throw. The DC equals 10 or half of the damage you dealt, whichever number is higher. If the creature fails the save, it falls prone and is frightened for 1 minute. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Intimidation Tactics (7th level Fighter, already have): You’ve learned how to carry yourself in and out of battle to “encourage” others to see your way of thinking. Whenever you make a Charisma (Intimidation) check, you gain a bonus to the check equal to your Strength modifier. In addition, you can use your bonus action to force a creature you can see within 30 feet of you to make a Charisma (Intimidation) check contested by your Charisma (Intimidation) check. If you succeed, the creature’s next attack is reduced by the difference between your checks. You can use this bonus action a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Exhibit Might (10th level Fighter, don't have yet): You wield your weapon to not just harm your enemies, but to utterly destroy their psyche. When you attack a target that is frightened of you, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 18–20. When you score a critical hit on a creature that is frightened of you, it suffers the following additional effects until the end of its next turn: x The creature has disadvantage on Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma saving throws. x The creature’s movement speed becomes 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed.

Emboldened Strike (15th level Fighter, don't have yet): You take advantage of the moment of panic your enemies experience when they see you in battle. Immediately after you cause a creature within 5 feet of you to become frightened, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against it, provided you can see it. On this attack, when you roll a 1 on a damage die, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is 1. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

On one hand getting Beguiling Twist will mean a lot more enemies are frightened, especially since I can use a very low 10DC Instill fear to trigger a higher DC Wisdom-based frightened if he saves. Also gets her 2nd level spells (probably aid and silence). On the other hand it will take me longer to get 3x attacks and longer to get to the 18 crit against frightened enemies. Rest of party is Artificer, Druid and Fighter.

Barbarian dip for Reckless attack coupled with the 10th level feature would be bonkers.

With advantage nearly 28 percent of attacks with an 18-20 crit range are Crits.

D&D 5e: Probabilities for Advantage and Disadvantage | Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science
 

ECMO3

Hero
i'd say get beguiling twist ASAP. the extra frightens will make exhibit might much stronger, and emboldened strike doesn't seem worth losing beguiling twist to me.

also, side note - what a weird subclass. instill fear is either trash or fine depending on if the DC is dependent on the total damage you dealt to the target on your turn or only on the strongest attack (i'm assuming it's dependent on the total damage). the bonus action from intimidation tactics is just broken. it makes bounded accuracy look like a joke.
In play instill fear is pretty cool because there is no range limit, no concentration and no save to shake the effects. Once you frighten an enemy that is it for him, and if it is a melee enemy he can't move any closer to you so you can back up and take 10 rounds to kill him from range. This lack of a save every turn and no concentration makes it better than most frightened effects if it lands

The DC is based on damage on your whole turn, or at least that is how we are playing it. With action surge a crit and 3 other hits, I have pushed the DC over 20 once and into the mid teens a few times, but most of the times I use it the DC is 10. You know what the DC is going to be before you pull the trigger, so you can weigh whether to use it. With a weak wisdom it can still be saved often, but if the enemy fails it can be catastrophic for the enemy.

Intimidation tactics would be pretty weak without a multiclass. On my character, with expertise and a the Fey wanderer Wisdom bonus it is average of about -15 on an enemies first attack. So it will completely trash that attack, and usually would even with a bad intimidation roll, but it is only one attack it screws up and only PB times per long rest. In that respect it is not really that powerful. A Rune Knight Cloud Rune for example is available 4 levels earlier and not only cancels an attack but works on an attack after it hits, then transfers the damage to an enemy and recharges on a short rest.
 
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The DC is based on damage on your whole turn, or at least that is how we are playing it.
ok yeah that's pretty good then.
Intimidation tactics would be pretty weak without a multiclass. On my character, with expertise and a the Fey wanderer Wisdom bonus it is average of about -15 on an enemies first attack. So it will completely trash that attack, and usually would even with a bad intimidation roll, but it is only one attack it screws up and only PB times per long rest. In that respect it is not really that powerful.
i dunno, against creatures with only a few powerful attacks that can be pretty damn good.
A Rune Knight Cloud Rune for example is available 4 levels earlier and not only cancels an attack but works on an attack after it hits, then transfers the damage to an enemy and recharges on a short rest.
i've never played a rune knight so i don't know how they work, really. that said, short rests aren't really that common in my experience. 1 hour "short" rest moment, honestly.
 



ECMO3

Hero
You effectively double your HP when raging.

Yeah, but that is a bonus action, which means I could not use a bonus action to frighten the enemy .and I could not rage while concentrating on cause fear. Those are two of the primary ways I frighten enemies and without the frightened, I don't get the expanded crit range.
 

Yeah, but that is a bonus action, which means I could not use a bonus action to frighten the enemy .and I could not rage while concentrating on cause fear. Those are two of the primary ways I frighten enemies and without the frightened, I don't get the expanded crit range.

Rage turn 1. Attack.

Frighten, toggle reckless and attack on turn 2.
 

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