Define "grognard"

[Hussar]

What's sad is that, from what I can tell, "grognard" is turning into another slang-insult for people who're unwilling/able to adapt to new aspects of gaming, and retreat into a microcosm of their antiquated game(s).

I say this mostly due to what I've seen on the grognard.txt sub-forum at SomethingAwful, which seems to exist solely for the posters there to mock anyone who exhibits a more-than-casual enjoyment of anything pre-4E.

What do you mean "turning into"?

Grognard, as far as I've ever seen the term used, has always been negative. The whole "grumbly" bit has always been in use. This isn't a new phenomenon.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Based on some of the stuff going on now, I went with confrontational.

 

[Desdichado]

What do you mean "turning into"?

Grognard, as far as I've ever seen the term used, has always been negative. The whole "grumbly" bit has always been in use. This isn't a new phenomenon.

Exactly. Even in the Napolean's soldiers days, that was what it meant, and it's always been part and parcel of the word.

Like I said, there was a movement that was somewhat successful amongst old school gaming fans to "reclaim" the term and use it as a badge of pride. I suppose that's fine. But that's a newish phenomena.

 

[The Ghost]

What do you mean "turning into"?

Grognard, as far as I've ever seen the term used, has always been negative. The whole "grumbly" bit has always been in use. This isn't a new phenomenon.

Funny, I have rarely seen the term used negatively. More often than not -- in my experience -- the term has been used to describe veteran wargamers; less often veteran roleplayers.

 

[Orius]

I define grognard as a long time player who has played an old edition of D&D, both regardless of wargaming.

I don't think grognard needs to mean someone who hates the new stuff. There are plenty of people who've been playing since 1e or even the three books who don't mind the newer rules or even prefer them. There's no reason that grognard shouldn't apply to them as well as anyone else who may prefer however strongly more classic rules as a neutral term rather than only being embraced as a badge of pride by gamers who think D&D has done nothing but go down the tubes since Gary left TSR or as an insult against them.

 

[Umbran]

What do you mean "turning into"?

Grognard, as far as I've ever seen the term used, has always been negative. The whole "grumbly" bit has always been in use. This isn't a new phenomenon.

Is it true that anything that might be construed as slightly negative makes the term altogether about badness? Does "grumbly" equate to "aggressively confrontational"?

Are we not allowed to have a word that has a bit of nuance, that has good and bad sides? The original Napoleonic reference covers being grumbly. It also covers being experienced, skilled, loyal, and professional. A grognard was someone Napoleon most certainly wanted with him in the field, was it not?

 

[The Shaman]

It seems that "grognard" is as difficult to define as "old school".

Not according to you own poll; slightly more than half of the respondents answered someone who plays an older edition of D&D.

And the two pejorative definitions get less than one-in-four of the votes cast, including yours, of course.

 

[amerigoV]

So, we should understand what that's like and instead of embracing the idiocy of "being right is serious business" we should be more tolerant of each other who just like to play different games and in different styles.

Pish - the whole reason I hang out here is to watch all the knife fights. Getting along = "zero entertainment value". Currently I am very disappointed that people have bought into the "Essentials is not 4.5e" line that Wizards as floated. Boring.

 

[El Mahdi]

It seems that "grognard" is as difficult to define as "old school".

Maybe folks should keep this in mind when they use the term for themselves or for someone else.

About half the folks here think "grognard" means: Someone who prefers an old edition of D&D. So, if you have played D&D since OD&D, but currently prefer and play D&D4, and you call yourself a grognard 'round here, only about 1/3 of the readers recognize your meaning. Some people are going to think you hate D&D4.

If you are a war gamer, and call yourself a grognard, most folks here won't make the connection you mean.

Bullgrit

I think this is spot on and really good advice.

I personally chose: "Long-time D&D player (regardless of war game history)" as this seemed the one closest to my definition. (Although "Someone who prefers an old edition of D&D - regardless of war game history", was pretty close for me also.)

I prefer the "old, grumbling, military veteran" definition myself (since that's me), but as applied to RPG's I prefer the above. I feel that it can be either positive or negative, depending on the person being described or the behavior of the specified person. But, it does seem to usually be used in a negative way. That's unfortunate as the people this originally applied to were trusted advisors, respected and consulted for their experience.

Personally, I proudly consider myself a Grognard. If someone else called me that in a negative manner, I think I'd have to consider that I may be exhibiting some of the more negative aspects of the name and possibly deserved it (unless it's simply due to my preference of an older edition or playstyle). However, I can't recall ever specifically being called one or having something I said (posted) characterized that way.

But as it seems to be a hot button word and open to multiple definitions, I think it is good advice that people consider how it might be percieved (whether used to describe themself or someone else).

 

[Mark CMG]

Are we not allowed to have a word that has a bit of nuance (. . .) ?

By the strict definition of nuance?