Deities and Demigods ~ Utility Concerns

[Information]

I have enjoyed my Deities and Demigods everyday that I've had it, thus far. Questions of utility relative to this book have been posed ever since it was unveiled that deities would be statted (and perhaps before?).

My campaign's PCs are presently c. 10th character level. Direct encounters with divinity have thus far been confined to servitors and petitioners, for ex., a celestial knight guarding an ancient magical tree on a demiplane in the Astral (adventure catalyst).

Deities and deific influence threads every fiber of my campaign. Knowledge of deities powers and limitations has illuminated every decision I've made as a DM, which D&Dg helps to clarify.

Although instances were deity stats have come into usage has thus far been negligable, I don't see this as a drawback. MotP has suffered from complaints (mostly, it seems, from resentful PS fans who decry its lack of treatment relative to their campaign setting), all of which are similiarly flawed.

Both MotP and D&Dg are useful given certain campaign styles and contexts. My party has yet to travel to an Outer or Inner Plane, but they have frequented numerous pocket demiplanes. I don't even use the Great Wheel, but I don't find "90% of it" to be "worthless".

I am one of those DMs who try to make everything useful. I've devoured MotP, making something on virtually every page useful (my cosmology is comprised of two thirds of the Great Wheel's planes re-arranged or re-named...i.e. IMC, Karasuthra is a plane and the PN of Faerie is a co-terminal demiplane called Faerieland).

With regard to D&Dg, I've made it feasible for all the D&Dg pantheons to co-exist. I don't have race deities, so I took each race deity (except Bahamut and Tiamat), made them into a separate pantheon (each w/a nature element, i.e. Corellan [forests] and Yondalla [hills]) with Taiia the Watcher as its head.

What I am interested in here is, of those here who have D&Dg, how have you used it? If you don't have it but think you have a grasp on its contents, and if you don't have it b/c you think it would be useless, why/why not?

 

[Information]

One of the interesting format concepts in the book is separating entirely textual information from the stat blocks. I can see DMs (who don't find deity stats useful) using only the first section of the deity write-up. Although I plan to eventually stat all my deities, I only have use right now for the first component of a deity's write up (namely, name, title, status, portfolio, clerics and temples, etc.).

 

[The Serge]

What I am interested in here is, of those here who have D&Dg, how have you used it? If you don't have it but think you have a grasp on its contents, and if you don't have it b/c you think it would be useless, why/why not?

I bought and have enjoyed DDG. I think it's a good resource for DMs who are interested in creating their own gods and cosmologies. The ability to create gods/powers/deities within d20 guidelines is nice, even for those who do not intend on having stats for their gods.

This book does have some flaws, but these flaws (like the need for deities to stack/possess certain abilities in order to have access to others) are the kind that any DM can simply ignore. For example, I threw out the idea that gods with a Divine Rank of 5 and higher have to take the Avatar divine salient ability; it's assumed automatically that all such beings can create an Avatar "naturally" as part of their divine being. To offset that adjustment, I halved the number allotted to the

That being said, I think that this book, for many DMs, will not present too much new in the way of concepts. The entire front end of the book deals with ideas on how to build cosmologies, how gods related to each other and with mortals, and so on. For many DMs (myself included), this material takes up a lot of space that could have been used for flavor text. Many DMs who have an interest in the planes and in gods probably have a healthy interest in philosophy/religion/mythology, and have probably created a lot of things already and will have little need for the material in the earlier portions of the book.

As for the gods that actually appear in DDG, I like to see how the creators have created "official" stats for beings I'm familiar with from literature and other texts. I like seeing how they measure up, in the minds of the creators, to each other. The only gods out of the book that have any impact on my campaign setting are Tiamat, Bahamut, Corelleon, Yondalla, Garl, and Moradin. The others I simply use as references as I create my own gods.
I do not like everything that was done with this, of course (like the official position on the Lords of the Nine and the Demon Princes, the continued silliness of Bahamut and Tiamat having a lower deific status than Kurtulmak, and so on) but these are things that, in the grand scheme of things, don't really matter in my world since I can change them at will. Of course, I enjoy debating on such matters, but that's because I like to challenge the opinions of others and have my opinions challenged in return.

This is a good book that will probably only serve a niche population. Fortunately, that population is very vocal, tends to be better educatated/well-read than most other gamers, and tends to care a lot about how gods are perceived because they recognize the importance such entities can play in a mythologically driven campaign.

 

[bwgwl]

i haven't bought the DDG because i don't think i need it for the campaign world i am currently designing.

in this campaign, there are only 3 gods who are all aloof and distant from the world. their only interaction with the material plane is to grant divine spells and occasionally send servitors (whom i have already statted out).

i don't need stats for these gods because they never appear in physical form in the world. i don't need guidelines for creating gods, pantheons, or cosmologies because i have already done that work on my own.

that being said, i've already got a germ of an idea for a future campaign world that would have gods more in the classical Greek model: gods who interfere with mortal affairs constantly and interact with heroes on a regular basis. if i ever get around to running that campaign, i'll definitely need to pick up the DDG.

same thing with MotP. i do have that, but i haven't gotten much use out of it other than a handful of monsters and the elemental templates. in the campaign i'm currently designing, there's only two Outer Planes (Paradise and Inferno), and they're both really only places you go when you're dead. so i don't really need any detail for extraplanar locations since the campaign will probably never leave the material world.

i was a bit disappointed with MotP -- i was hoping for a book that was, say, 80% generic rules on how to build cosmologies and extraplanar adventures, and 20% examples of such. the book i got feels to me to be 80% examples and only 20% generic information, and thus much less useful to me as i don't ever plan on using the "Great Wheel" cosmology.

however, i am an inveterate tinkerer and world-builder, and i can see how it appeals to many other gamers.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

The book will eventually (we still need the ELH) see major use in our campaign (surprise surprise).

I have already spotted a number of issues I will contest - most notably any type of Divine Creation (eg. Avatars; Artifacts; Servants etc.) is better handled using worship points.

It was also stupid to make Immortals immune to Anti-magic and by extension provide no EX/SU clarification for the Salient Divine Abilities.

I suppose no mechanics for divine ascension & progression will have chagrinned most people (though I always knew that would work to my favour).

I was a little disappointed there was no attempt to explain the various ranks and not detailing uber-deities was something of a cop-out.

The main issue that gave me pause was the terrible waste of space in the book repeating obvious material. They should have purposely worked stuff into a template:

eg.
Divine Immunities - under every deities description they reprint virtually (modified by status) the same list.

Senses - just state the range.

Automatic Actions - just state the DC.

Create Magic Items - this paragraph is always irrelevant.

Spell-like Abilities - Do we really need these listed every time (above Level and DC anyway)? Once you know the Domains you are just repeating the same material.

Domain Powers - Again probably better explained elsewhere.

After all that we have removed the best part of three-quarters of a column from each deity. With 81 deities in the book that means we have saved 30+ pages already!

Overall I liked the book - but not as much as I wanted to! Too many unanswered questions for me and not enough surprises!

...Oh, and Odin got the shaft!

 

[Belgarath]

problems with the rules

I myself have found some admittedly nit-picky details that do not add up.

1) Spontaneous Wizard Spells - this ability requires arcane mastery( which means no spellbook), but the text states that a diety still needs a book unless he/she has Divine Spellcasting.

2) Increased Energy Resistance - adds additionial resistance to acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic energy. Being divine gives IMMUNITY to three of those.

3) Arcane Master - gives the diety all spells in the spell list as long as he/she has enough levels and intelligence. Minimum intelligence is 29! How many 20th levels spells are you aware of?

4) Divine Ranger - this is the only divine class salient ability that requires anything else except 20th level in that class. Looks like rangers got shafted again.

5) Alter Reality - says that it can work like Create Object including the required rest period. What rest period!?

6) Rest Period - where does it state anything about a rest period, besides in Alter Reality?

7) Godly Attributes - if I was creating a deity from scratch, how can I figure out what STR, DEX, etc to give him. Seems the official ruling has been left out. Looking at the web enhancement it gives a 0 rank deity anywhere between 22-40!

8) Sorecers - I see all kinds of neat salient abilities regarding wizards, but where are the ones for sorcerers?

These are just things that I have found just glancing through the book. I have not done a detailed analysis yet. I am almost afraid to.

 

[Eryx]

I didn't buy D&Dg because I run either a Scarred Lands or a DragonLance game and so it would be of little real use to me.

However, I did flick through it in the shop and although it looks nice, its lacking the number of pantheons that the 2nd ed Legends & Lore had, which was a disapointment.

 

[Snoweel]

After the disappointment of MotP, which I bought without opening the cover, I was wary of DaDG.

But after 10 minutes of ignoring the glare of the shopkeeper, I'd seen enough of DaDG to be impressed enough to buy it.

However, I also bought Rokugan, (which I'm pimping for all I'm worth), and haven't yet had time to finish reading it, so I'll have to get back to you on the usefulness of DaDG.

BTW, I'm not currently gaming, but rather, overhauling my campaign world.

And I just bought some new shoes.

 

[Rashak Mani]

The Book is good for choosing dieties and things like that... ruleswise its as close to useless as I have seen... at least where 90% of groups are concerned...

How many of you plan to fight gods or avatars ? How many intend to make a battle of Athena vs Ares ? Stats are useless...

But the Art is great... use it as a reference to gods and thats it.

 

[bwgwl]

use it as a reference to gods and thats it.

that's what i was afraid of.

so if we're not using those particular gods, and we're not personally interacting with gods in our campaign, how much utility can we expect to get out of this book? (percentage-wise?)