Design & Dev: Monsters (DRAGONS!)

[A'koss]

However, one suggestion I've seen is that the iterative attacks slow the game down. Cutting down the fighter to a single attack is going to cripple them if you don't somehow increase the damage they can do with that attack. If so, than 500 hp with a single attack might not be that far fetched.

I had thought of that too (as they're pulling a lot of stuff over from SWS) but still... 500+ HP? Slay an ancient dragon in 2 hits? Not a chance IMO - that's far too much. Even half that seems excessive.

 

[Knightfall]

Because of the ridiculous nose spike, dragons can't chew bubblegum. They can only kick ass. How many abilities did that dragon use in one round? That is insane. It seems like a lot of Draconomicon is being incorporated into Core. The old Clinging Breath on the secondary Fireball breath weapon.
Free action Breath Weapon. Free Action Tail Slap in response to the rogue, new AoO? Special Ability to take a standard action to toast the wizard with the Clinging Fireball. 20' reach to standard action attack Ftr and Clr. Immediate action to Breath Weapon in response to a charge, AoO?

I think that Immediate actions are going to replace the standard Attacks of Opportunity. You get one Immediate action a round, and it lets you react to something when it's not your turn.

So you could cast a spell that requires an Immediate action, as your AoO. Or swing a sword. Or do what the dragon did.

Interesting...

 

[Knightfall]

I think you're reading too much into it - the Cleric almost certainly would have had to move if the Fighter charged - and they're getting rid of iterative attacks.

The getting rid of iterative attacks sounds like a good thing, but my player's would hate it. I'm going to wait for the 4^E SRD and pick the best pieces to reinvent for my 3.5^E campaign.

The new way skills are done sounds interesting too.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

It read like combat at those levels could be over in two rounds. I know that seems to be the case now in high level 3e/3.5. But I'm not sure I like it now, and I'm not sure I'll like it in 4e.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I had thought of that too (as they're pulling a lot of stuff over from SWS) but still... 500+ HP? Slay an ancient dragon in 2 hits? Not a chance IMO - that's far too much. Even half that seems excessive.

Of course, in this example, we don't know...

1) What maneuver, if any, the fighter might've been using.
2) If characters get extra damage in place of iterative attacks.
3) What magic weapon the fighter might be using.
4) What level the characters are.

If we're talking about epic characters here (in the 4E sense), a single hit doing hundreds of points isn't out of the question. But that said, we don't even know for a fact that he did 500 in that shot. We just know that's the shot that dropped the dragon below half.

 

[MerricB]

Of course, in this example, we don't know...

1) What maneuver, if any, the fighter might've been using.
2) If characters get extra damage in place of iterative attacks.
3) What magic weapon the fighter might be using.
4) What level the characters are.

If we're talking about epic characters here (in the 4E sense), a single hit doing hundreds of points isn't out of the question. But that said, we don't even know for a fact that he did 500 in that shot. We just know that's the shot that dropped the dragon below half.

Personally, I think it's likely he had a good manuever.

Cheers!

 

[mearls]

Let me assure everyone that, if the fighter in the example actually did do 500 hit points of damage in one attack, development will ambush him on his way out of design and soundly beat his damage back to a real D&D level.

(The example combat cannot possibly start on round 1. It's more likely round 4 or 5. Dragons take a LOT more than 2 hits to go down, and no PC will come close to doing 500 hit points of damage to a single target with one attack.)

 

[A'koss]

The getting rid of iterative attacks sounds like a good thing, but my player's would hate it. I'm going to wait for the 4^E SRD and pick the best pieces to reinvent for my 3.5^E campaign.

The new way skills are done sounds interesting too.

Actually, multiple attacks still exist - there's the Design & Dev. article that talked briefly about a 3rd level fighter with a longsword making multiple attacks. It could be that it requires a feat to accomplish (like SWS) though...

 

[A'koss]

Let me assure everyone that, if the fighter in the example actually did do 500 hit points of damage in one attack, development will ambush him on his way out of design and soundly beat his damage back to a real D&D level.

(The example combat cannot possibly start on round 1. It's more likely round 4 or 5. Dragons take a LOT more than 2 hits to go down, and no PC will come close to doing 500 hit points of damage to a single target with one attack.)

Thanks for chiming in here Mike, you've saved me from having to argue this all night long.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Also, come on: we can't come to any conclusions about iterative attacks considering that the fighter charged that round.

Now, sure, maybe charging is flavour and the action doesn't exist in Fourth Edition, but . . .