Design & Development: Magic Item Levels

[HeavenShallBurn]

Well, the most interesting apsects of thia article is the impications that flight, levitation, and short-range teleportation are all Paragon-level abilities, and presumably things like long-range teleportation are even higher level abilities (probably Epic).

Coffin's getting so nailed down Houdini couldn't escape. I was one of the rare few who actually liked the distribution of movement abilities like fly, teleport, etc.

 

[am181d]

Have you taken a look at Weapons of Legacy?

No, but my understanding is that WoL presents specific items that have level progressions.

It would be much better (IMO) to have straightforward rules for weapon advancement that match intuitively with character level progression. Then DMs could easily construct their own weapon advancement charts or let the player make those decisions (to simulate weapons that form unique bonds with their wielders).

Not a new idea, either way. (I've run several games where players continually upgrade the same weapons with variable fluff surrounding the process.) But anything that makes my house rules simpler and more intuitive is good.

 

[Rechan]

After reading the article, the winner is:

I don't like this! It's going to force me to use these rules for my campaign.

It also looks like "Magical items = Prices". I wonder if this also means "Magical item prices = Purchasable at your local MageMart".

 

[Rechan]

No, but my understanding is that WoL presents specific items that have level progressions.

WoL did present specific items, but that's sort've like the DMG presenting specific items like a Flametongue or Helm of Teleportation; WoL presents a system to do exactly what you said.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

For those who can't be arsed to click:

The Magic Item Compendium introduced the concept of levels for magic items. This primarily served to help DMs determine what magic items to place in a treasure hoard (or to give to his NPCs). Since we built that level system around the existing magic item prices, it was an imperfect solution (for instance, a few non-epic magic items exceeded the pricing scheme for level 1-20 items).

Fourth Edition D&D improves that useful tool by explicitly linking a magic item's level to its price. For example, all 9th-level magic items now cost the same number of gp to craft or to purchase. This makes it even easier to gauge a magic item's appropriateness for your game at a glance. Don't know if it's OK to drop a flying carpet into the hands of your 9th-level PCs? Well, the fact that the carpet's listed as an 18th-level item should clue you in that it'd have an enormous impact on your 9th-level game.

Does that mean that all magic items of the same level will be equal in power? Well, yes and no.

It's true that the designer of two different 9th-level magic items imagines that they'd have a roughly equivalent impact on gameplay. A +2 thundering mace and a +2 staff of the war mage, if designed and developed properly, should be equally useful in combat. That comparison generally isn't too hard, since the basic functions and utility of combat-based effects remain relative regardless of the weapon or implement. How much extra damage does the mace deal compared to the staff? If damage isn't involved, how useful and potent are the items' effects against foes? And so on.

However, that comparison quickly becomes more art than science when comparing magic items of different purposes. (This, by the way, is why relying on hard-and-fast pricing rules for magic items is troublesome at best, and actively bad for your game at worst.) After all, most magic items only "compete" with other items in a narrow category for a character's attention, so comparing their values can be quite tricky.

For example, if a rope of climbing and a +2 flaming longsword are both 10th-level magic items (and thus both cost the same number of gold pieces), that's not quite the same thing as saying that a rope of climbing is as powerful as that weapon. After all, it's unlikely that a character has to decide between those two items -- they serve fundamentally different purposes.

It's much more likely that a character interested in a rope of climbing will compare its price to other items that let him overcome similar obstacles (such as the 7th-level slippers of spider climbing or the 13th-level boots of levitation).

Alternatively, if he's in the market for a new weapon, he would compare the value of that +2 flaming sword with the more expensive +3 vicious sword (12th level), or the slightly cheaper +2 lightning sword (9th level).

What the designer is saying, rather, is that he imagines that the effect of both the rope of climbing and the +2 flaming sword are appropriate for characters around 10th level. A few levels before that, either item would have a much more significant impact on gameplay (possibly by making certain spells or powers of the characters obsolete). More than a few levels after that, either item will have lost a lot of its luster -- maybe because more characters have easy access to levitation, flight, or even short-range teleportation effects, in the case of the rope of climbing, or because they're all toting around +3 or better weapons, making the flaming sword seem underpowered.

Ultimately, assigning levels to magic items sends a message to players and DMs: Here's when this item is most appropriate for your game. Once that information is in your hands, of course, it's up to you to use it as best befits your game!

 

[am181d]

WoL did present specific items, but that's sort've like the DMG presenting specific items like a Flametongue or Helm of Teleportation; WoL presents a system to do exactly what you said.

Ah. Okay, then. Still happy that a mechanic like this is (sort of/probably) making it into 4e core.

 

[Bishmon]

I haven't read the article yet, but I'm going to go ahead and get this out of the way:

I don't like this! It's going to ________________________

Narrow or limit options for players.
Take what's D&D out of D&D, chipping away what's D&D.
Has bad names.
Is forcing me to use these rules for my campaign.
Establishes arbitrary distinctions.

You might want to tone it down a bit. Your recent eagerness in dismissing opposing opinions is not only disrespectful but also inevitably disruptive.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Coffin's getting so nailed down Houdini couldn't escape. I was one of the rare few who actually liked the distribution of movement abilities like fly, teleport, etc.

Well, I've thought fly is one level to early (should be 4th, I think it compares well to dimension door) and shadow walk and teleport are switched, because the latter is so much better than the former. Otherwise, I was fairly happy.

But then, that was to be expected,

1) Because it makes terrain and stuff matters. Fogs, chasms, cover, walls, tables, chairs, burning floor... all that stuff matters nothing, if you can fly and ignore it.
2) "Stretched" progression. After all, they've said that the "sweet spot" is the main inspiration for the levels, so getting perma-flying is determined to be delayed.
3) Furthermore, as a wizard-daily-spell, we'll probably get fly earlier, after all, a flying carpet can fly willy-nilly, a spell has a set duration - though this will probably be later than before.

For those who can't be arsed to click:

Hey, no fair at all, I even incorporated the log-in workaround in my link!

Cheers, LT.

 

[Traycor]

...and hello there are only 30 different item prices.

I can't say I'm too fond of that simply because its difficult to rationalize that within the world. I'll probably find myself making a list of all of the items and adjusting their cost semi-randomly.

Actually it shouldn't be hard at all... because within the game world there is no reason that magic items would have 'fixed' prices anyways. The prices are for meta-game purposes.

I seriously doubt that in a points of light world there will be a local magic shop that carries a +2 flaming longsword. Most folks would wet themselves if they saw something like that, much less know how much it was worth.

 

[Aloïsius]

3) Furthermore, as a wizard-daily-spell, we'll probably get fly earlier, after all, a flying carpet can fly willy-nilly, a spell has a set duration - though this will probably be later than before.

Yup. We can have a 3rd level spell (for 3rd level character !) that allow you to fly one round per encounter. But "the whole party can fly overland for hours without need to cast a spell" may as well be a 18th level object.