D&D 5E DEX-based spear wielding Fighter

[Psikerlord#]

Prince Nuada from Hellboy II was 100% a monk that used a spear and a shortsword. If I were making a character like you describe in the OP, that's how I'd build it, casting aside the monastic trappings and focussing on the class mechanics.

I don't think I would allow reach for a spear. 5e wraps the long spear, lance, and pike together as the pike, so if you want a pointy stick with reach I'd send you in that direction. A regular spear will not be significantly longer than a 2 handed sword, and unlike the sword you will be gripping it nearer to the middle. You don't get reach for a 2H sword (or a maul, or a greataxe) so I can't see that reach should apply to a spear, either.

Prince Nuada is one of my fav characters ever!

 

[Psikerlord#]

2. Graceful Spear Fighting Style: "When you make an attack with a spear, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack and damage rolls for that attack. When you wield a spear in two hands, your reach extends to 10 feet. While wielding the spear in two hands, your AC is increased by 1."

In my view this fighting style is too much. Defensive style only gives +1 AC, nothing else. I would consider "Graceful Fighting Style" something like "use dex instead of str" when using simple weapons and that's it. For me, to get all of the above would require a more substantial investment (a feat).

 

[Rune]

S

In my view this fighting style is too much. Defensive style only gives +1 AC, nothing else. I would consider "Graceful Fighting Style" something like "use dex instead of str" when using simple weapons and that's it. For me, to get all of the above would require a more substantial investment (a feat).

That's where I started. And as much as I wanted to agree with you, I couldn't. Allowing only simple weapons represents a net gain of zero damage for a Dex melee fighter, since there are no d10 simple weapons. Even allowing two-hand martial dex weapons only represents +1 damage. That is pathetic for a fighting style.

But, a conditional bonus to AC (similar to the conditional bonus Mariner provides) helps a lot. And it's nowhere near the bonus that Defensive style gives, simply because that one is not conditional--and stacks with everything, including a shield. Whereas Graceful Spear Fighting's AC bonus cannot stack with a shield, because a shield can't be used with it. No, if anything, Graceful Spear Fighting Style seems underpowered, but I think it's good enough to compete.

 

[Psikerlord#]

S

That's where I started. And as much as I wanted to agree with you, I couldn't. Allowing only simple weapons represents a net gain of zero damage for a Dex melee fighter, since there are no d10 simple weapons. Even allowing two-hand martial dex weapons only represents +1 damage. That is pathetic for a fighting style.

But, a conditional bonus to AC (similar to the conditional bonus Mariner provides) helps a lot. And it's nowhere near the bonus that Defensive style gives, simply because that one is not conditional--and stacks with everything, including a shield. Whereas Graceful Spear Fighting's AC bonus cannot stack with a shield, because a shield can't be used with it. No, if anything, Graceful Spear Fighting Style seems underpowered, but I think it's good enough to compete.

It's not about DPR, it's about substituting dex for str with spears and being able to tank str as a result. At least in my view. The +1 AC is powerful and can be combined with a shield if the spear is used one handed. I do see your point, but agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Rune]

It's not about DPR, it's about substituting dex for str with spears and being able to tank str as a result. At least in my view. The +1 AC is powerful and can be combined with a shield if the spear is used one handed. I do see your point, but agree to disagree on this one.

No it can't, because I specified that the AC bonus only exists while wielding the spear in two hands. It is specifically not as a good fighting style for tanking as Dueling style.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

I don't think I would allow reach for a spear. 5e wraps the long spear, lance, and pike together as the pike, so if you want a pointy stick with reach I'd send you in that direction. A regular spear will not be significantly longer than a 2 handed sword, and unlike the sword you will be gripping it nearer to the middle. You don't get reach for a 2H sword (or a maul, or a greataxe) so I can't see that reach should apply to a spear, either.

Neither would I. What the D&D rulebook calls a "spear" is something like an asssegai. It is, after all, lighter than a quarterstaff!

 

[LapBandit]

I don't understand why you can't just make the spear a Finesse weapon and eligible for Polearm Master and call it a day. Does Dueling Fighting Style to apply to it RAW? Wouldn't that hit the DEX-fighter / spear wielder archetype more than powerful enough?

 

[Lord Xcapobl]

So, I have read this thread to its current conclusion, the moment I decided to add this post. I have seen a couple of interesting tips and additions. Some with a little more feeling for internal game balance, others totally based on making an archetype work, regardless. But in those five pages I just kept wondering one thing, which nobody had yet dared to ask.

Here we have two princes. Oberyn and Nuada. They both seem to perfectly portray the DEX-based spear wielding archetype. One can debate about their classes, feats, and what not. But in the end, they both met up with muscular opponents, making me assume their foes were at least a bit of a STR-based build. And I kept wondering about Oberyn and Nuada...

"Didn't they both die?"

 

[Dargrimm]

"Didn't they both die?"

I know nothing about Nuada (never read or watched anything related to Hellboy), but Oberyn Martell died because of his hubris. He was, without a doubt, the best fighter but his pride and thirst for vengeance made him underestimate his opponent in the last moment, and that was his undoing.

I guess his WIS score was 8.

 

[Gillywonka]

Lots of good advice on this thread. I agree as previously mentioned, get with your GM and house rule the spear be covered under the Polearms Master feat. I see no reason why it couldnt. The finesse tag also sounded very nice. (reading these, i think i'll house rule them as mentioned, for my campaign)
Here's a house rule i did for my campaign that you can run by your GM for use.

Weapon Fighting Style 2 Handed – See Fighter, Ranger and Paladin fighting styles. PHB p72, 84, 91
2 Handed Weapon fighting style gives +1 to AC and +1 to hit. This option is available to be chosen by the above classes. The weapon must have the 2-handed or versatile trait.