D&D (2024) Dexterity too good?

[Pauln6]

Make Strength matter by actually enforcing encumbrance and carrying capacity.

If that was a popular fix everyone would already be doing it. It's fiddly.

 

[GMMichael]

It could always be split up into Manual Dexterity and Agility.

I was going to say, "just solve all the ability problems by adding a 7th ability to clean up the loose ends." Agility could work. But then, Comeliness has been dying to be a real ability for a long time now.

Just think: if WotC adds a 7th stat to 6e, they can avoid calling it 6e (solving that problem) by calling it D&D7 instead!

By the way, @Elodan, WotC is neglecting Intelligence just to keep up with the times. Literally.

 

[Oofta]

Part of the reason dex is too good is because strength based PC are repeatedly penalized by lack of options and in other ways. A strength based fighter can make 1 ranged attack per round with a javelin that has one fifth the range of a longbow. Meanwhile a high level dex based fighter can have virtually the same DPR all while firing 20 or more shots from a heavy crossbow in a minute.

A lot of that is how the game (and many DMs) handle heavy armor. Want to sleep, swim or sneak in heavy armor? Good luck with that. You have an additional 5 to 10% on your AC, so of course that means that we have to penalize you at every opportunity! Well made heavy armor alone should make a person into the equivalent of a tank and it doesn't.

For the range attacks, I make longbows versatile. I'm tempted to ban crossbow expert so you can't ignore the loading property. I also allow people to throw as many javelins (or other thrown weapons) as they want, it looks like they're adding that to the 2024 release so that's a good thing.

The other things we can do is enforce encumbrance, but the current default encumbrance rules are incredibly generous. I do enforce encumbrance rules, but it rarely makes much of a difference. Asking for athletics checks for climbing does matter, I can't remember how many times people ask if they can't just use acrobatics instead.

But rules changes? Not how does an individual DM try to balance the scales?

• Make longbows versatile. They should technically be strength based for traditional longbows, but that would never fly.
• Allow people to attack with ranged melee weapons as they want.
• Don't make a distinction between ranged melee weapons and ranged weapons, if someone wants to take sharpshooter with daggers let them.
• Give an option to have "quiet" heavy armor, whether as an additional cost or perhaps part of a feat that gives you other benefits.
• Limit how much benefit dexterity adds to AC. Have a minimum strength for shields and get rid of studded leather armor. I know this one would never fly either.

I don't expect any of my suggestions, other than throw as many weapons as you want, to make it into the 2024 edition. But I can dream.

 

[Corinnguard]

WotC is neglecting Intelligence just to keep up with the times. Literally.

Intelligence could be made into the mental equivalent of Dexterity. You're quick at solving riddles, puzzles and other things that stump those around you.

 

[dave2008]

Anyone else feel like Dexterity is too good in 5E.

It affects

• initiative
• armor class
• missile attacks and damage
• melee attacks and damage (with agile weapons)
• roughly 1/3 of spell saves

Doubt WotC will do anything about it, but I wouldn't mind seeing the love spread to neglected abilities like Strength and Intelligence.

Yes

 

[renbot]

Make damage always dependent on Strength. Want the precision of your finesse weapons to add more damage? Take rogue levels.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Part of the reason dex is too good is because strength based PC are repeatedly penalized by lack of options and in other ways. A strength based fighter can make 1 ranged attack per round with a javelin that has one fifth the range of a longbow. Meanwhile a high level dex based fighter can have virtually the same DPR all while firing 20 or more shots from a heavy crossbow in a minute.

A lot of that is how the game (and many DMs) handle heavy armor. Want to sleep, swim or sneak in heavy armor? Good luck with that. You have an additional 5 to 10% on your AC, so of course that means that we have to penalize you at every opportunity! Well made heavy armor alone should make a person into the equivalent of a tank and it doesn't.

For the range attacks, I make longbows versatile. I'm tempted to ban crossbow expert so you can't ignore the loading property. I also allow people to throw as many javelins (or other thrown weapons) as they want, it looks like they're adding that to the 2024 release so that's a good thing.

This. And the change to unarmed attacks.
Those changes will make strength really good for sticky melee combatants.

Want to run past you?
Opportunity unarmed attack to grapple.

This is where versatile weapons will shine too.

 

[James Gasik]

Part of the reason dex is too good is because strength based PC are repeatedly penalized by lack of options and in other ways. A strength based fighter can make 1 ranged attack per round with a javelin that has one fifth the range of a longbow. Meanwhile a high level dex based fighter can have virtually the same DPR all while firing 20 or more shots from a heavy crossbow in a minute.

A lot of that is how the game (and many DMs) handle heavy armor. Want to sleep, swim or sneak in heavy armor? Good luck with that. You have an additional 5 to 10% on your AC, so of course that means that we have to penalize you at every opportunity! Well made heavy armor alone should make a person into the equivalent of a tank and it doesn't.

For the range attacks, I make longbows versatile. I'm tempted to ban crossbow expert so you can't ignore the loading property. I also allow people to throw as many javelins (or other thrown weapons) as they want, it looks like they're adding that to the 2024 release so that's a good thing.

The other things we can do is enforce encumbrance, but the current default encumbrance rules are incredibly generous. I do enforce encumbrance rules, but it rarely makes much of a difference. Asking for athletics checks for climbing does matter, I can't remember how many times people ask if they can't just use acrobatics instead.

But rules changes? Not how does an individual DM try to balance the scales?

• Make longbows versatile. They should technically be strength based for traditional longbows, but that would never fly.
• Allow people to attack with ranged melee weapons as they want.
• Don't make a distinction between ranged melee weapons and ranged weapons, if someone wants to take sharpshooter with daggers let them.
• Give an option to have "quiet" heavy armor, whether as an additional cost or perhaps part of a feat that gives you other benefits.
• Limit how much benefit dexterity adds to AC. Have a minimum strength for shields and get rid of studded leather armor. I know this one would never fly either.

I don't expect any of my suggestions, other than throw as many weapons as you want, to make it into the 2024 edition. But I can dream.

I would actually remove Dex from damage on ranged attacks unless thrown/hurled by muscle power and go back to bows adding Strength to damage.

As for crossbows, well, they've suffered a lot in D&D, so if you want to keep the loading property, they should have dramatically boosted damage (especially if you remove Dex from the equation). At close ranges, the power of a crossbow can be devastating (a real crossbow, not that cheap one-handed toy, lol). Another thing that is usually forgotten (save in 4e, ironically), is that crossbows are very accurate weapons; never underestimate the advantage of an iron sight!

The game should make crossbows an alternative to bows, not their poor cousin, alas, the bow has been enshrined in D&D since forever...but that's a personal rant, lol, so I'll stop now.

 

[Oofta]

I would actually remove Dex from damage on ranged attacks unless thrown/hurled by muscle power and go back to bows adding Strength to damage.

As for crossbows, well, they've suffered a lot in D&D, so if you want to keep the loading property, they should have dramatically boosted damage (especially if you remove Dex from the equation). At close ranges, the power of a crossbow can be devastating (a real crossbow, not that cheap one-handed toy, lol). Another thing that is usually forgotten (save in 4e, ironically), is that crossbows are very accurate weapons; never underestimate the advantage of an iron sight!

The game should make crossbows an alternative to bows, not their poor cousin, alas, the bow has been enshrined in D&D since forever...but that's a personal rant, lol, so I'll stop now.

Not just D&D but enumerable TV shows and movies. Bad-Ass female with ranged attacks? Give her a longbow! Composite longbows it's ok-ish, but traditional longbows had draw weights of 150 pounds or more and they were so hard to pull that people that trained in them deformed their skeletons.

Honestly not sure what to do with crossbows, another big reason to use them was because of their relative simplicity of use. Much the same reason that early muskets replaced the longbow, they were easier to use for relatively untrained soldiers.

 

[James Gasik]

Not just D&D but enumerable TV shows and movies. Bad-Ass female with ranged attacks? Give her a longbow! Composite longbows it's ok-ish, but traditional longbows had draw weights of 150 pounds or more and they were so hard to pull that people that trained in them deformed their skeletons.

Honestly not sure what to do with crossbows, another big reason to use them was because of their relative simplicity of use. Much the same reason that early muskets replaced the longbow, they were easier to use for relatively untrained soldiers.

Yeah, which is why they got sorted into Simple weapons, but the 3e developers made a mistake in assuming that "Simple = inferior to Martial"...ironic since "Exotic was =/= to Martial" in a lot of cases. Funny they got that right with nunchakus but so utterly wrong with bastard swords and crossbows.

The bow is certainly superior to the crossbow in certain respects, but to use a bow like a Welsh longbowmen requires a great deal of training. This is a weapon for elite troops.

Anyone can pick up a crossbow and figure out how to fire it with little instruction. It's accurate, doesn't need great strength, is devastating at shorter ranges, but it's slow to reload. 5e crossbows fire much faster, which is certainly a plus, but they are still outpaced by a bow in the hands of a high level warrior.

As an aside, the -5 to hit, +10 damage thing should have never been allowed for crossbows. I'd have been much happier giving them a +2 bonus to hit and calling it a day, lol.