D&D (2024) Dexterity too good?

[Horwath]

Bag of what?
You want to haul more loot, bring a pack-mule or a cart.
But also YES to removing Dex from ranged damage. The power of bows is a function of the user's strength. Dex for accuracy, but Str for damage.

One could say that accuracy is damage.
But I do agree to have STR requirements for bows.
For BASE damage:

Damage d4, min STR 8
Damage d6, min STR 10
Damage d8, min STR 12
Damage d10, min STR 16
Damage d12, min STR 20

add DEX as bonus damage as normal.
IF you do not have STR required, disadvantage to attack and minimum damage.

 

[Cruentus]

One could say that accuracy is damage.
But I do agree to have STR requirements for bows.
For BASE damage:

Damage d4, min STR 8
Damage d6, min STR 10
Damage d8, min STR 12
Damage d10, min STR 16
Damage d12, min STR 20

add DEX as bonus damage as normal.
IF you do not have STR required, disadvantage to attack and minimum damage.

I like that. Yoink. I might also see how to port that into melee weapon damage minimums as well. If your Str is between a certain value, the maximum die for damage is X. Two handed bumps up one die size. So a Str 8 half-giant barbarian (yes, we had one) would do, say d4 damage with a longsword (d6 if two handed). A finesse rogue with a Str 10 could do d6 with a rapier + Dex bonus to hit and damage. Hmm...

 

[Bacon Bits]

Anyone else feel like Dexterity is too good in 5E.

I would tend to agree, and I will also agree that WotC won't do anything about it.

The issue with Strength is that the things it does are either very boring, or very binary.

Strength affects carrying capacity. Which very few tables seem interested in actually tracking. It's a lot of bookkeeping, and even if you're using digital tools it's not a tremendous amount of fun. Besides, a mule is 8 gp. The game has all sorts of ways to overcome carrying limits.

Strength also allows you to wear heavier armors, but you still can't do so without penalty, and heavy armor itself is really only good if you're not playing a Dex-focused character.

Strength also lets you manipulate the world through brute force. You can clear obstructions, bend bars, lift gates, etc. The trouble is... either these are obstacles that any party could overcome, or they're obstacles that aren't actually important to overcome. Sure, you might gatekeep a critical item or pathway behind a Str or Athletics test. But the reality is that no DM will do that, especially if they're publishing the adventure. So Str does do things that no other attribute can, but in practice, Str still isn't required. It's an attribute of convenience.

Str does have the highest damage output, but that's only because there are Heavy, Two-Handed melee weapons that deal 1d12 or 2d6 damage. And even then, the fighting styles you can use with Dex weapons mostly or completely make up the difference. A rapier with duelist, twin rapiers with TWF, and any ranged weapon with accuracy are barely behind GWF with 1d12 or 2d6 weapons.

D&D is not as bad as Savage Worlds, where Strength is literally only used for melee combat damage and everything else uses Agility. But it's not really a well-thought-out division of the design.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I would tend to agree, and I will also agree that WotC won't do anything about it.

The issue with Strength is that the things it does are either very boring, or very binary.

Strength affects carrying capacity. Which very few tables seem interested in actually tracking. It's a lot of bookkeeping, and even if you're using digital tools it's not a tremendous amount of fun. Besides, a mule is 8 gp. The game has all sorts of ways to overcome carrying limits.

Strength also allows you to wear heavier armors, but you still can't do so without penalty, and heavy armor itself is really only good if you're not playing a Dex-focused character.

Strength also lets you manipulate the world through brute force. You can clear obstructions, bend bars, lift gates, etc. The trouble is... either these are obstacles that any party could overcome, or they're obstacles that aren't actually important to overcome. Sure, you might gatekeep a critical item or pathway behind a Str or Athletics test. But the reality is that no DM will do that, especially if they're publishing the adventure. So Str does do things that no other attribute can, but in practice, Str still isn't required. It's an attribute of convenience.

The same is true for dex and stealth and thievery. You can gatekeep things behind locked doors or behond u beatabke foes. But who would do that?

Str might allow you to take a shortcut by climbing, breaking doors, rowing agains a strong current.

I always find it interesting where having dex dependend challenges are just normal adventuring things, but if someone asks for strength checks, it is gate keeping.

 

[Gadget]

Well, with the addition of finesse weapons and such, Dexterity has gained a lot. In the old days, traditional Dex based classes were limited to weapons like dagger, club, & short sword/bow, and the 'good' weapons were all strength based. So high Dex characters were giving up offense for bonii to AC, initiative and Saves (actually I don't think they had stat bonus to saves), and the plethora of skills that Dex benefited (Just had non-weapon proficiencies, actually). This made STR always matter.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

In AD&D dex added to AC (no matter what base armor), ranged attacks, saving throws, initiative and allowed you to wield an off hand weapon with very low penalties. (it reduced the -2/-4 penalty by up to 2 with dex 17 or 18 or even 3 with dex 19 IIRC)
It also added to thief skills.

Speakimg about a god stat. If you consider that strength, only added +1 to hit chance, +2 to samage if you are no warrior, it is quite clear which stat was way more important...

Compared to that, dex and str are very well balanced in 5e.

 

[Clint_L]

I like that. Yoink. I might also see how to port that into melee weapon damage minimums as well. If your Str is between a certain value, the maximum die for damage is X. Two handed bumps up one die size. So a Str 8 half-giant barbarian (yes, we had one) would do, say d4 damage with a longsword (d6 if two handed). A finesse rogue with a Str 10 could do d6 with a rapier + Dex bonus to hit and damage. Hmm...

Again, I have reservations about changes to dex/str that seem intended to benefit classes like fighter/barbarian/paladin, for whom dex is secondary/tertiary (again, some fighters excepted) at the expense of rogue/ranger/monk, for whom dex is primary. If you link weapon damage die to strength, that hurts those classes by making them even more MAD.

If anything, it's the dex-based classes that are going to need a damage buff, especially once weapon masteries happen.

 

[Cruentus]

Again, I have reservations about changes to dex/str that seem intended to benefit classes like fighter/barbarian/paladin, for whom dex is secondary/tertiary (again, some fighters excepted) at the expense of rogue/ranger/monk, for whom dex is primary. If you link weapon damage die to strength, that hurts those classes by making them even more MAD.

If anything, it's the dex-based classes that are going to need a damage buff, especially once weapon masteries happen.

I understand the concern, but at our table, fighters/barbarians/rangers can't keep up with the Dex based Paladins with Smite, Dex Rogues sneak attack, high dex clerics with various spells, etc. All of our "fighty" characters are MC'd spellcasters with high Dex and Con, no Str to be seen anywhere. Fighters only keep up with PAM/Two Weapon/Double handed magic weapons with magical damage adds.

When anyone can replace their STR hit and damage with DEX hit and damage, including Fighters, then why even have STR? Athletics? Carry capacity (that no one uses)? Swim? It ends up less than useless.

Frankly, I'd rather see all damage across the board drop, and the sack o' hit points everywhere with it. But the design paradigm is "more, more, more", so that ship has firmly sailed.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Bag of what?
You want to haul more loot, bring a pack-mule or a cart.

Now I have to keep track of a mule?!

Nope.

Sorry. I'm out.

 

[aco175]

If you are looking to nerf DEX, then just not have any finesse weapons over 1d6. If you need more, then only add STR damage to ranged attacks.