D&D General Stun: The Fun-Killer

[Fanaelialae]

Absolutely. This plays out in different ways tactically (in the midst of combat), than it does strategically (thinking about the approach to a dangerous situation before combat).

I know the strategic approach is less in vogue with modern D&D, but one of the cool things about carrion crawlers, ghouls, mind flayers and such in older editions (not necessarily a rules thing, more a play style) was that they encouraged out-of-the-box thinking. This did require player foreknowledge about the unique nature of the threat posed...which may not be something the designers want in the game as much. But the good part was that this led to players talking about:

"Ghouls? Crap, let's try to avoid fighting them in melee. We don't want to get paralyzed and dogpiled! Wasn't there a pit trap we passed in that hallway? Rogue, why don't you lure them this way, while the rest of us post up behind the pit trap with our arrows and spells at the ready?"

I don't know how much of that gets lost when we start lessening the impact of conditions like stunned or paralyzed. It's probably a shades of grey situation. But I can recall my old group (with plenty experienced players) facing carrion crawlers in 5e, and they waded into combat and didn't give a second thought to getting paralyzed... I was able to magnify the threat by making the crawlers aquatic & having them drag a paralyzed PC into the water to drown them... but that was me making it dangerous in spite of the paralyzation tweaks*, not because of them.

* I'm referring to the duration of the paralyzation across editions, not house rules, for anyone wondering (i know you know Stalker). In AD&D, the paralyzation lasted 2d6 x 10 minutes, compared to 5e where it lasts until "save ends" (less than a minute).

For those unfamiliar with AD&D, a combat round was 1 minute. So it was 2d6 x 10 rounds (not 2d6 x100, as someone more familiar with 3e+ might expect). But yeah, massively longer duration than in 5e.

 

[Distracted DM]

Missing a few turns isn't the end of the world. Hasn't the game already been nerfed enough?

Side note: interesting (and sad) that magic items don't get petrified any more.

Also interesting that while not stated, it's implied that a petrified creature remains alive throughout; which has long been a point of debate in our home circles.

Missing a few turns can be a whole combat- in modern D&D means not participating for possibly an hour or longer
I think that sucks.
But I also find 5e/a5e characters QUITE powerful.. so that's one reason I'm inclined to make a change to the condition, not give player characters one set of rules vs NPCs.

 

[Quickleaf]

For those unfamiliar with AD&D, a combat round was 1 minute. So it was 2d6 x 10 rounds (not 2d6 x100, as someone more familiar with 3e+ might expect). But yeah, massively longer duration than in 5e.

Ah thanks for reminder, I forgot that turn length was relative, 10 min outside combat, but 1 min inside combat.

 

[Laurefindel]

I have a strong dislike for stun/paralysis type spells and effects, even when they’re short lived. I much prefer things like what the OP proposed.

I’m on the fence about the sleep spell. I like the spell as a way to bypass a combat or maybe even avoid confronting an enemy otherwise too strong to fight, but I dislike the « make them sleep then stab them » tactic.

 

[Incenjucar]

In my 4E game I replaced all monster stun abilities with something else, or at least a target choice between stun and a different effect.

 

[Distracted DM]

I have a strong dislike for stun/paralysis type spells and effects, even when they’re short lived. I much prefer things like what the OP proposed.

I’m on the fence about the sleep spell. I like the spell as a way to bypass a combat or maybe even avoid confronting an enemy otherwise too strong to fight, but I dislike the « make them sleep then stab them » tactic.

I don't see an issue with Sleep

 

[Distracted DM]

Ok so on the "no complex actions" idea, where you can't cast leveled spells... What about class features like Lay on Hands? What about using items- sure we'd say a potion is fine, but what about a wand? I guess technically that's casting a spell, so only a cantrip wand would work..
But this is the line I mention in the first post-where said line should be.

If this were 4e I could say "only at-will abilities" and be done with it

 

[Staffan]

the question then, is what is the cost of doing so? HP is the easy target because it's the universal resource.

If anyone recalls what systems might implement it I'd be curious to see what they do.

It's not quite the same, but 13th Age usually has hp thresholds for crowd control abilities (so they affect a target with up to X hp). This means you generally can't open with them against strong foes, but either you have to knock the foes around a bit first to bring them under the threshold, or you use them against actual multiple weaker opponents to split a tough fight into two smaller fights.

 

[Distracted DM]

I run mostly a5e games so there are a number of ways for characters to stun as well- it's not just monks

As much as I would like to further limit what can be done while Stunned in this manner, I fear that starting down that road will lead to more headaches than it will prevent re: specific stipulations. I'll likely enact this house rule this week and see how it goes!