D&D General Stun: The Fun-Killer

[Distracted DM]

Ok, so like the title says, Stun sucks. It especially sucks for players- sorry, you don't get a turn- guess you should've passed that save against Mind Blast!
It's sucked in previous editions too, and in other systems I love like 13th Age. Sure there's still Paralyze, but usually something can be done about that.

So I came up with this, it's kind of like a hybrid between stunned and slow.

Proposed Stun house rule:

A stunned creature's speed is halved; it can speak only falteringly.
A stunned creature cannot take reactions or concentrate.
On its turn, a stunned creature can take either an action or a bonus action, not both. In addition, it can't make more than one melee or ranged attack during its turn. Its attack rolls and ability checks are made at Disadvantage.
It automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.

At least the creature has options, even if they're not going to be the greatest options.
What do y'all think? Any issues that arise?

Edit1: I’d want to add wording preventing complex actions like casting leveled spells and using a5e maneuvers, but wording that and figuring out where the line should be drawn would require a bit more thought.
Edit2: Added Disadvantage to ability checks as well as attacks.
Another consideration: should creatures only be able to move OR action/bonus action? Is that too debilitating? It seems that anything is an improvement over the current "nothing."

 

[Fanaelialae]

Ok, so like the title says, Stun sucks. It especially sucks for players- sorry, you don't get a turn- guess you should've passed that save against Mind Blast!
It's sucked in previous editions too, and in other systems I love like 13th Age. Sure there's still Paralyze, but usually something can be done about that.

So I came up with this, it's kind of like a hybrid between stunned and slow.

Proposed Stun house rule:

A stunned creature's speed is halved; it can speak only falteringly.
A stunned creature cannot take reactions or concentrate.
On its turn, a stunned creature can take either an action or a bonus action, not both. In addition, it can't make more than one melee or ranged attack during its turn. Its attack rolls are made at Disadvantage.
It automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.

At least the creature has options, even if they're not going to be the greatest options.
What do y'all think? Any issues that arise?

If this only applies to PCs, it's fine.

If it applies to monsters too, it basically makes the monk (already a class that wasn't terribly powerful, aside from stun spam) much much worse.

 

[mellored]

They added Dazed to the playtest, with similar mechanics.

While Dazed, you experience the following effect:
Limited Activity. You can Move or take one action on your turn, not both. You also can’t take a Bonus Action or a Reaction.

Not sure if mind blast will be changed to Dazed, but maybe

 

[Stormonu]

Hmm. I’m not big on nerfing stun, but it does come on-line a bit early in the game.

Proposal doesn’t look bad, though I might consider preventing a stunned creature from modifying its reduced speed.

Also, the STR & Dex saves should probably be at disadvantage, not auto-failed.

 

[overgeeked]

If the point is to prevent PCs from being stunned and missing turns, couldn’t you either simply not use stun attacks against them or have the save DC be super low?

 

[Distracted DM]

If the point is to prevent PCs from being stunned and missing turns, couldn’t you either simply not use stun attacks against them or have the save DC be super low?

There’s a big difference between missing a turn entirely, and having to consider what you can do with a limited set of options. Not using stun attacks at all would remove the mind flayers iconic attack etc.
I don’t think downgrading all stuns to slows would be a good solution either.

 

[Distracted DM]

Thank you all for the thoughts!

If this only applies to PCs, it's fine.

If it applies to monsters too, it basically makes the monk (already a class that wasn't terribly powerful, aside from stun spam) much much worse.

I had considered having this only applying to PCs, but treating them differently rubbed me the wrong way. Regarding the monk, if their sole useful ability is to Stun, I think that’s an issue with the class, not this change. But I do thank you for that consideration

They added Dazed to the playtest, with similar mechanics.

While Dazed, you experience the following effect:
Limited Activity. You can Move or take one action on your turn, not both. You also can’t take a Bonus Action or a Reaction.

Not sure if mind blast will be changed to Dazed, but maybe

I’d be interested if it was changed, but I doubt it. I didn’t know about that new condition, it’s interesting but too light of a change for Stun. I think Stun should be scary but not “don’t get to play the game.”

Hmm. I’m not big on nerfing stun, but it does come on-line a bit early in the game.

Proposal doesn’t look bad, though I might consider preventing a stunned creature from modifying its reduced speed.

Also, the STR & Dex saves should probably be at disadvantage, not auto-failed.

Definitely didn’t consider the speed modifying thing, unless you mean through being Hasted etc. That one had occurred to me but I wasn’t sure how I felt about it- and I didn’t want to get too complex or kludgey with this change. Is there existing wording/precedent for a creature not being able to make use of modified speed? That might make me lean towards using it
Why do you feel that way about not auto-failing Str andDex saves? I could still rationalize it in the narrative/fantasy as being too “out of it” to avoid a fireball etc.

 

[Stormonu]

Auto-grapple with failed Strength save comes to mind, which oddly leads back to the mind flayer and its extract brain ability.

Also if the character can still move, albeit at half speed, they can still get out of the way of a fireball, it's just a lot harder.

Finally, grappling has this wording about speed: "A grappled creature's speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed."

 

[Distracted DM]

Auto-grapple with failed Strength save comes to mind, which oddly leads back to the mind flayer and its extract brain ability.

Also if the character can still move, albeit at half speed, they can still get out of the way of a fireball, it's just a lot harder.

Finally, grappling has this wording about speed: "A grappled creature's speed becomes 0, and it can't benefit from any bonus to its speed."

Haha well, if we're talking 5e I believe grappling only involves ability checks, not saving throws. a5e, however, does use saving throws for some Grapple stuff.
But thanks to your thoughts I realized that I'd probably want ability checks to be made with disadvantage as well.

I'm considering the speed modification thing- whether it's necessary/why to include it.

 

[Distracted DM]

With all these debilitating effects on a Stunned creature/player, I wonder if it's alleviating the issue- that is, if a stunned creature can act, but everything's at disadvantage etc, is it really any different than not being able to act at all?

... I think yes; there are way to mitigate disadvantage, and if you're fighting something with a relatively low AC even disadvantage won't stop probable hits.

Hm. Should creatures only be able to move OR take an action/bonus action? As it stands they both move (albeit half) and action. Maybe the thought came from the Dazed condition that mellored brought up.