Dirty Trick + Strat Match = Stupid Trick

[Jin Chi]

Okay, I'm in my first match with a character of mine who has Dirty Trick....so I go digging around to figure out how I use it when I come across the following sentence from the rules (thanks Sabaron):

In a strategy match, when a dirty trick is used, the fighter against which the dirty trick is used chooses one of their opponents moves and indicates that that move should be marked as Used. This is of course unless the match is in the third round of the current hand in which case it is irrelevant as a new hand is about to be drawn anyway.

I am not down with this ruling at all.

What this means is that I am going to play a dirty trick on my opponent by voiding his move and letting him toss away the best move I have left. That is stupid. Unless ALL of my moves suck, I might as well counter with my best move and hope the judgement goes my way.

I should be the one choosing what move I'm sacrificing with my dirty trick.

Otherwise I'm better off just sitting on the trick and enjoying the initiative benefit. I would never use it when it wasn't a 3rd move from a hand.

 

[Vanor]

Most don't use dirty trick until the 3rd round of a hand.

And if you got to pick the move discarded then it would make dirty trick to powerfull.

As it stands, if you have a move you feel could beat the other fighters move, then your better off using it. Dirty trick is best used when you don't think you could win the round no matter what move you post.

If you got to pick the move discarded, you'd pick the one you felt was the weakest, or one the other fighter was immune to. This would be in effect voiding out his best move with your worst. This isn't fair to the fighter the trick is being used on.

As it is, in the worst case, your losing a strong attack to void out one of his strong attacks, so it is balanced. If we went with your way, then dirty trick would become unblanced, as you could void out a strong attack with the loss of a weak one.

 

[reiella]

Pretty much the only use of Dirty Tricks in a strat match is the guarantee of going last. Unless it happens to be the third round, even more so the case if 6 size hands become the norm because of the FoF potential in the future. Same use as sneaky tricks to a Yakuza really.

 

[Zappo]

6 size hands because of FoF? Wouldn't it be simpler to just rule that whenever FoF is used, the other fighter chooses and discards a move from his hand, and the hand is regenerated whenever the fighters have less than three moves left?

The fighter would of course choose his weakest move, but after all if I'm using FoF I'm likely using as the 'extra' a weak move, or a sig style or yen move that isn't good enough to be used.

 

[reiella]

I have no real idea why it isn't that way (Well actually I do, it makes Fist of Fury an easy way to quickly kill a bad hand or an opponent's overly good hand). I just added the capibility to meowthbot for matches and fought one myself.

 

[graydoom]

A Dirty Trick is still very useful in a strat match. If your opponent gets a signature style move and you don't want to risk putting what you think your best move is against it, then you can use Dirty Trick.

Also, keep in mind that most of the time the "best move" is purely subjective. Your judgement differs from your opponents judgement which differs from the judge's judgement.

 

[Jin Chi]

Subjective yes.

But I think we all know that "The lizard mangles the badlands as it spins underneath the armor; redirects the quickening of the steel!" is better than "The raven lies above the forest; negates the edge of the shield!".

Put it this way, the opponent shouldn't be able to discard one of my signature moves just because I want to use my ability to stop their attack.

Lets assume the move I want to DT is a good one. Mebbe a sig move. Lets throw in some yen. I don't think I can beat it. So I Dirty Trick the bastard. In return, my opponent now yanks out my "best" (subjectivity notwithstanding) move. Now I probably have to go first and don't have my best move available to me.

Who is playing the dirty trick on whom?

 

[Vanor]

And your still trading a good move for a good move. The other guy has gone first the whole fight up to this point, now you do.

This seems fair to me.

 

[reiella]

So in effect, Dirty Trick becomes unused in general in strategy matches unless it's the 3rd round, and also to preserve the only real advantage they provide... initiative.

 

[Vanor]

pretty much, so they effectively grant someone 2 benifits.

1) Initiative.
2) Void a round with the possablity of losing 1 good move. And with that one DT you could void out a 6 point punch on the part of the honored fighter.

The way it works now is quite well blanced. If the yak fighter could pick which move they lose then they'd throw out what they thought was the worst move of their hand. This lets them void out a strong attack with the loss of a weak one.

Please tell me how you could consider that situation fair?