Discussing 4e Subsystems: Retraining

[ExploderWizard]

Can you expand upon this? I don't see how a character retraining a power or feat would hurt the consistency of a campaign world, or a character's involvement in it.

I have no problems if someone is unhappy with thier character to bring in another one. I would prefer if the characters didn't wake up every morning after gaining a level suffering from chronic amnesia though.

I am amazed that people could have such a hang up over the short term memory loss from vancian casting and not blink an eye at forgetting how to perform a routine function of thier class overnight.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I am amazed that people could have such a hang up over the short term memory loss from vancian casting and not blink an eye at forgetting how to perform a routine function of thier class overnight.

The difference is one (Vancian) states for a fact that you forget the spell after casting. While the other (retraining) gives no specific timespan, so learning the new ability/forgetting the old could take as long as it makes sense for the circumstance.

 

[ExploderWizard]

The difference is one (Vancian) states for a fact that you forget the spell after casting. While the other (retraining) gives no specific timespan, so learning the new ability/forgetting the old could take as long as it makes sense for the circumstance.

So if a character swapped out a power then, for a time, he could use either one? Why not alternate to keep your arsenal in tip top shape. In theory you could keep this up. Just add powers as you gained more knowledge. What a concept!

 

[Turtlejay]

This is just my perspective, but nobody says that the character forgot anything. Most reasons for retraining will be to be a more effective combatant. This is just like learning a new power when you gain a level. The character is learning something 'better' and forgetting something less useful. They do not use that power/exploit/spell whatever because they have a suite of things more useful at their disposal.

Jay

 

[Lacyon]

It seems like in some cases even forgeting how to do the mundane steps to get to the larger ones. Take a punch with the left hand. You have known how for quite a while.

You learn how to throw a punch with a left then a right, and somehow you forgot how to throw a punch with only the left hand.

What?

Basic attacks don't get retrained.

I have no problems if someone is unhappy with thier character to bring in another one. I would prefer if the characters didn't wake up every morning after gaining a level suffering from chronic amnesia though.

I am amazed that people could have such a hang up over the short term memory loss from vancian casting and not blink an eye at forgetting how to perform a routine function of thier class overnight.

Interestingly enough, Wizards are still a major culprit for my own issues with retraining, since your spell actually vanishes from your spellbook to get replaced by another.

Amusingly, this is one time where you can legitimately say, "A wizard did it."

So if a character swapped out a power then, for a time, he could use either one? Why not alternate to keep your arsenal in tip top shape. In theory you could keep this up. Just add powers as you gained more knowledge. What a concept!

In theory, you could master everything. In reality, there are only so many hours in a day to practice.

(It breaks my versimilitude to have a world where nobody ever gets rusty at anything.)

 

[justanobody]

Basic attacks don't get retrained.

I wasn't going to scour and reproduce powers or compare names to find the exact ones that are extensions of earlier ones so just used a simple example relating to the real world.

 

[ExploderWizard]

This is just my perspective, but nobody says that the character forgot anything. Most reasons for retraining will be to be a more effective combatant. This is just like learning a new power when you gain a level. The character is learning something 'better' and forgetting something less useful. They do not use that power/exploit/spell whatever because they have a suite of things more useful at their disposal.

Jay

So whats wrong with just adding on the new powers? Why must a poor character "forget" anything? If the new powers are all better in every way then there isn't any harm in letting a player choose from all available options and if a weaker power is used by choice who cares?

Is it a fear of actually having more options even if some are suboptimal?

 

[Michele Carter]

(It breaks my versimilitude to have a world where nobody ever gets rusty at anything.)

So true. For example, I long ago retrained my Linguist feat (marginal Spanish, stumbling Hebrew, and read-only Interlac) for the Improved Technical Editing feat. My knowledge of those languages is not merely rusty, but essentially nonexistent at this point.

 

[Runestar]

Basic attacks don't get retrained.

Technically speaking, they are classified as at-will powers in the game, and can thus be retrained via paragon multiclassing...

 

[The Little Raven]

Can you expand upon this? I don't see how a character retraining a power or feat would hurt the consistency of a campaign world, or a character's involvement in it.

I guess the fact that I learned Spanish when I was a child, then unlearned it from lack of use and picked up German in high school (a real life example of what retraining represents) means real life is inconsistent.