Divine Spells with Arcane Material Component?

[Laslo Tremaine]

As a longtime lurker on this board, I have never seen this issue brought up, and it has kind of thrown me for a loop.

I have a player who is running a Cleric of Wee Jas. She has taken the Magic Domain and has noted that she gets Identify as a 2nd level spell.

From the SRD...

Identify
Divination
Level: Brd 1, Magic 2, Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 8 hours
Range: Touch
Targets: Up to 1 touched object per level
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The spell determines the single most basic function of each magic item, including how to activate that function (if appropriate), and how many charges are left (if any). For example, a +2 vorpal sword, a +2 dancing sword, and a +2 sword would all register as "+2 to attack and damage rolls."

If a magic item has multiple different functions that are equally basic, identify determines the lowest-level function. If these functions are also of equal level, the DM decides randomly which is identified.

Arcane Material Components: Worth at least 100 gp value.

Upon reading the spell description, she noted (as I have highlighted above) that the spell has an Arcane Material Component.

She wanted to know, that since they have gone to the effort to list it as arcane, does that mean that when it is cast as a divine spell, there would then be no component cost?!?!?

My knee-jerk response was to say "No! Bad Munchikin! No cookie! Of course you still have to pay the component cost!"

But am I right?

Looking at other spells, it seems somewhat random as to which spells have Arcane Material Components and which have just plain old Material Components.

Any insight on this one?

edited for formatting...

 

[mikebr99]

My knee-jerk response was to say "No! Bad Munchikin! No cookie! Of course you still have to pay the component cost!"

But am I right?

I'd say that you were right... though I do not have rules to quote for you.

Call them Divine components if you want... but she still has to pay for the spell.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

By the book, no cost (just as you need not pay for the psionic power identify).

I don't see it as a big balance issue. Folks aren't exactly lining up to take the Magic domain just to get access to this as a domain spell, and NPC divine casters would be unlikely to give a price break on the spell (having a rare ability and knowing that the market would bear the higher price).

 

[novyet]

Indeed there is no cost for a divine caster. That's why the M/DF is on the component line, M for Arcane or Divine Focus for Divine Casters. It's never really been a big issue in any campaign I've been in.

 

[CRGreathouse]

But am I right?

No. Arcane material components are only for arcane casters.

 

[Laslo Tremaine]

Re: Re: Divine Spells with Arcane Material Component?

No. Arcane material components are only for arcane casters.

I hate to be difficult, but can you cite a rule for that. Otherwise it is just sloppy editing on WotC's part and is left open to interpretation.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Re: Re: Re: Divine Spells with Arcane Material Component?

I hate to be difficult, but can you cite a rule for that. Otherwise it is just sloppy editing on WotC's part and is left open to interpretation.

I'm not sure if there is a rule to cite or not, but I can't say because my PH is loaned out at the moment. (I'll get it back this weekend.)

Good examples of differing components can be found, though. I can't give page numbers, but off the top of my head:

* There are two spells which require verbal components only for bards. Not only does this follow from the class description of the bard, but one of the spells is explicit about the verbal components. (In fact, both may mention it in the spell description... I can't remember exactly.)
* The spell scrying, among others, lists different components by class.

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about. There are a number of typoes and mistakes in the PH, but this isn't one of them.

 

[dpdx]

(V, S, M) or DF?

IOC, Clerics could substitute Divine Focus for ALL of the required components because the Divine way to cast spells often required a verbal and/or somatic component, anyway. Silence 15'? No verbal, no divine focus. Cleric held? No somatic, no divine focus. But I think that was wrong, or just a house rule.

It works better if Divine Focus just substitutes for the M (Material) component. And that's what I'm thinking PHB says.

 

[Anubis]

Interestingly enough, there IS, in fact, a rule in the PH that covers this issue. Take a look at the "Components" section on page 151. Next, take a close look at some of the spells.

M does NOT stand for "Arcane Material Component". There is no such thing per the core rules per say. "M" simply stands for "Material Component".

That said, the book clearly states on page 151 (under the description of "Divine Focus") that when "M/DF" is listed for a spell (i.e. Identify, Invisibility, Horrid Wilting), that means Arcane casters use a Material Component (listed as Arcane Material Component for reference) while Divine casters use a Divine Focus (holy symbol).

There ARE, however, spells that list "M, DF" (i.e. Commune, Desecrate, Consecrate), as well as some Divine spells with only "M" (Raise Dead, Resurrection, True Resurrection). For spells that list "M, DF", Divine casters must use the Material Component AND the Divine Focus.

Anyhow, that's on page 151 and in the spell lists for you. Hope I've been able to clear up the issue.

 

[loviatarfrostbringer]

Stoneskin, provided by the Strength(?) domain, also has an arcane material component. However, it is a 6th level spell for that domain. For a 2 level bump, I say it is ok to not have the component.

That's my ten cents. My two cents are free.