DM can't get the hang of high-level play

[Elder-Basilisk]

How would you price that? It looks extremely powerful so I hope the answer is "highly".

They're from Tome and Blood: 5400 for the lesser version (1-3 level spells), 21k for up to 6th level spells, and 48k for any spell; usable 3/day. (Note that it only lasts all day for hour/level spells cast at level 12+).

A more flexible item (although less powerful) would be a 2nd level pearl of power (4k, DMG) which would also allow PCs to make stat buffs last all day with one prepared slot. (Since two castings at level 12 will add up to 24 hours of enhancement).

They all have decent con, so tons of hit points. The problem is more the save versus die effect, not damage handling.

Ahh. More con would help with the fort saves but if they've got plenty of hit points that does assuage one worry.

Ironically, they had cloaks of acid resistance but have been loathe to wear them because they are made from human skins. Bunch of babies. I think they'll be on full time from now on and to hell with the stares.

Is the bunch of babies the players or what their cloaks are made from?

From the looks of this reply though, I think you're missing the point of the suggestion. Acid resistance wouldn't help the PCs--what they need are cloaks of resistance (+1 to +5 resistance bonus to all saving throws). A high level character without a cloak of resistance (or vest of resistance from Tome and Blood) is going to have marginal saves at best (maybe a paladin or monk might still have decent saves without one but anyone else is pretty stuck).

 

[WizarDru]

The problem I'm having as a referee is that I can see almost every encounter from here on in being a potential save-or-die situation. I like some of the solutions some of you have suggested---more parties of lower CR creatures is a good plan. Also the idea of using action points a la d20 Modern is intriguing, though it wouldn't have saved the cleric. It's nice having an ace up your sleeve when you get smacked by a save vs. 3d6 con damage or something though.

Take the word of one who knows....low CR creatures will not solve your problem. They will present a significant Under-challenge, which will cause a different problem. What you need to do is likely re-analyze the EL rating that your party can handle, and plan your future adventures accordingly. Having only two PCs is the first problem, but it's hardly insurmountable.

A greater problem you'll face is that at higher levels, encounters often fall into one of two categories: insanely lethal or incredibly anticlimatic. Some powerful creatures can only be defeated by a failed save, unless you've got a combat monster who can survive long enough to deal his death.

Consider: Throwing six dire tigers against a party of 10th level characters is NOT the same as sending a Devourer against them. The challenge is completely different, and depending on the party make up and the situation, are even if the same EL, they are not the same. Higher CR creatures have mnany abilities, immunities and powers that dwarf large numbers of low powered beasts. Often, weaker creatures will result in a longer battle, but may often just consist of the creatures waiting for the players to get around to insta-killing THEM. That may not be the effect you desire.

The best approach, of which Piratecat and Sepulchrave are kings, is to either present the players with challenges outside of their direct experience, keep the players off their balance with the unknown, or to obfuscate the issue by making use of their powers not be the right/best solution, even though it is A solution.

 

[Schmackboy]

The best approach, of which Piratecat and Sepulchrave are kings, is to either present the players with challenges outside of their direct experience, keep the players off their balance with the unknown, or to obfuscate the issue by making use of their powers not be the right/best solution, even though it is A solution.

This is pretty interesting. Can you cite some concrete examples?

 

[WizarDru]

I'll use an example from my own game that worked well (and is documented in my story hour, for those curious, a link can be provided): Essentially, the players were attacked by a series of 50 4 HD constructs. At 10th-12th level, the characters were in no great danger. However, the constructs were powered by children, strapped into the giant insect-like automatons, and the children would suffer first before the constructs would be destroyed.

The players also had to rescue several NPCs who were threatened by the self-same constructs. In this case, six PCs retreated from the field, since they couldn't bring their firepower to bear...killing the constructs simply was NOT an option. Instead, they retreated and found another solution.

In Sepulchrave's story hour, the main characters are faced with a similar, although much more difficult, dilemma. The paladin, labelled as a heretic, must engage in war against other members of a now fragmented LG church. He knows that he has no equal in swordsmanship...but might isn't the solution. His conflicts are what make Sepulchrave's story hour so grand.

In Piratecat's story hour, most of the arc is taken over by their stay in a city where they are commissioned by their monarch to start a trade relation. Things rapidly get out of hand, of course. That the Defenders of Daybreak could slaughter most of the beings in the city is not at question. Would they, could they and who they are is what defines the situation. When Velendo releases a swarm in a public place, killing an enemy, it has far reaching political consequences beyond the average monster slaying.

Further, Piratecat is the master of misdirection. Take one type of creature, modify it, rub off the serial numbers and change the physical description and you have instant party uncertainty. What is it? What can it do? How do we defeat it? Will it stay dead? Take a purple worm, modify it, and you have the Necropede, a creature that is so hideous it borders on genius.


And so on.

 

[Schmackboy]

Excellent. Thank you!