D&D 5E DM purposely gimping my Warlock

[Elf Witch]

Which is exactly the advise given on the first page of this thread. Where I took offense was people blaming the player.

Nobody was blaming the player they were pointing out that he was slightly exaggerating how bad he was gimped.

And many people even those who thought he was exaggerating advised him to walk especially after reading the posts with the conversations with the DM and the other players because it didn't seem like a good fit.

 

[Elf Witch]

Horrid DMs certainly exist.

I've gamed with 2 that would definitely qualify.

The first was horrid because the players didn't matter in the least to his campaign. They were merely spectators that he expected his "brilliance." Looking back, the only reason players stayed in was because we were young and didn't know any better.

The second DM was worse. He misled me as to the nature of the campaign (said low powered, so I made a low powered character, I was the only character that wasn't super magic or super powered). I don't have a problem playing low powered among high powered as long as I'm useful and it's fun, but why mislead?

He followed this by not letting my character do his shtick (I had made a tracker, but no matter how high I rolled he never actually let me track anything - despite or perhaps because being able to track the villain would have been extremely useful). Fortunately, I was older by this point. I gave the game two sessions and bailed.

Both of these people thought they were God's gift to DMing.

But I suppose there was an upside, I learned much of what NOT TO DO from these experiences and certainly believe my own DMing benefited as a result.

there are a lot of bad DMs out there,

ones that change rules mid play and sometimes back again... (In my game there is no stone skin, well this NPC researched his own spell like stoen skin, no you can't make up your own stone skin)

ones that throw BS monsters (Yes it needs a +2 or higher magic weapon to hurt, and no one even has a +1 yet)

ones that pretend taking a left was a bad call worth rerolling half the party (open door, wail of banshee everyone save or die... well if you hadden't opned THAT door)

ones that limit choises for no reason (only 3 races and 4 classes in MY game)

ones that make stupid random rolls (well my archer is up I will roll 1d6 to see what PC he targets... ok 5 is you... "But I'm not in the fight I stayed in the last room because I only had 3hp left... too bad random roll said target you, rapid shot 5 arrows coming your way)

ones that fudge just to kill PCs because it's funny (we killed a mantacore in the air... it fell on me and killed my first PC, 3 games later same campaign the black dragon was down to single hp so he breathed on a wall and brought down the whole room killing itself and 3 of 5 PC including me)

so yea, not just an internet thing.. bad GMs are for reals...

You are both right there are bad DMs out there. I learned a lot of what not to do from the ones I had the misfortune to play with.

But you know I have seen far more bad players than DMs in my long time playing the game.

Which is why I take with a grain of salt some of the complaints I read from players.

I a sorry but save or die spells are part of the game it is not bad DMing to use them. It is not bad DMing to have a flying creature you killed fall from the sky and maybe impact the PCs what would be bad DMing is not allowing the PCs any chance to avoid it.

It is bad DMing to do the bait and switch on the players when it comes to the campaign but what is also bad is players agreeing to a campaign and then bringing in characters that don't fit.

It comes down to there are bad players on both side of the screen if you are not having fun find a group you can because bad gaming is not better than not gaming.

 

[Sadrik]

That's applauding ignorance.

If the DM wants to run a game, they should be competent in the material. It would be like auditioning for a part in a play, and the director changing the part around completely, and when asked why, you find out the director hasn't even read the original.

Your view on this is detrimental to the hobby as a whole. I think jumping in and running and having it fun and messy and collaborative is good.

 

[Astrosicebear]

Your view on this is detrimental to the hobby as a whole. I think jumping in and running and having it fun and messy and collaborative is good.

Competent. Not expert.

Again this isn't a group of friends at a table over beers. This is a community site where people invest time to play. There is a reasonable expectation of competence here.

Let me liken it to NY Taxi drivers. When I hail a cab driver, and get in the car, I enter in to a sort of agreement that the driver knows how to drive. If you've ever been in a NY taxi, that is very, very questionable sometimes. Bad taxi drivers end up giving all taxi drivers a bad image, regardless of how many good drivers are out there, people remember the bad ones. A bad enough experience and people may never take a taxi again.

I do realize taxi drivers are licensed, and DMs are not, but lets not split hairs. My point remains exactly the same. Instead, what do we tend to do...

"Dont blame the driver, blame the whiny passenger for the bumpy, heart-attack filled ride."
"It was the passenger's fault. He shouldve got out of the car when they hit the first detour."

 

[GMforPowergamers]

since these came from my example allow me to call BS...

I a sorry but save or die spells are part of the game it is not bad DMing to use them.

the example was 5th level PCs open a door, and have to make a Save... or Die. It is a poor example of DMing because there is 0 way to avoide the effect, it is from a creature out of normal bounds, and it ended the campaign

It is not bad DMing to have a flying creature you killed fall from the sky and maybe impact the PCs what would be bad DMing is not allowing the PCs any chance to avoid it.

he looked at the weight and did a huge fist of d6's reflex save for half... the half was more then any PC had at full hp... so yes BAD DMING... that wasn't save or die, it was die even if you save... and what caused th edeath...winning the fight

 

[Sadrik]

Competent. Not expert.

Again this isn't a group of friends at a table over beers. This is a community site where people invest time to play. There is a reasonable expectation of competence here.

Let me liken it to NY Taxi drivers. When I hail a cab driver, and get in the car, I enter in to a sort of agreement that the driver knows how to drive. If you've ever been in a NY taxi, that is very, very questionable sometimes. Bad taxi drivers end up giving all taxi drivers a bad image, regardless of how many good drivers are out there, people remember the bad ones. A bad enough experience and people may never take a taxi again.

I do realize taxi drivers are licensed, and DMs are not, but lets not split hairs. My point remains exactly the same. Instead, what do we tend to do...

"Dont blame the driver, blame the whiny passenger for the bumpy, heart-attack filled ride."
"It was the passenger's fault. He shouldve got out of the car when they hit the first detour."

No. The ride can be bumpy. If the ride is too bumpy for you get off the ride. Your preconceptions are such that a DM should deliver an unequaled ride that fits your preconceived notions of exactly how that ride should be. If it does not fit that mold, it should not exist. That is a pretty small hoop to jump through. I am for expanding that hoop size. Your argument is for shrinking it based on your preconceived competency. It very difficult to objectify competency. What does not work for you may work for others and may work for many others. That is the major hurdle from what I see your your "side".

 

[Astrosicebear]

No. The ride can be bumpy. If the ride is too bumpy for you get off the ride. Your preconceptions are such that a DM should deliver an unequaled ride that fits your preconceived notions of exactly how that ride should be. If it does not fit that mold, it should not exist. That is a pretty small hoop to jump through. I am for expanding that hoop size. Your argument is for shrinking it based on your preconceived competency. It very difficult to objectify competency. What does not work for you may work for others and may work for many others. That is the major hurdle from what I see your your "side".

Valid points. But I don't agree that my idea is to shrink the hoop. Rather, to bring the outliers into the center with education and advisement. I dont want to fire all the bad drivers, just send them to school so they might learn how to be better drivers. I'd like the best drivers out there to teach at that school.

 

[chriton227]

Competent. Not expert.

Again this isn't a group of friends at a table over beers. This is a community site where people invest time to play. There is a reasonable expectation of competence here.

Let me liken it to NY Taxi drivers. When I hail a cab driver, and get in the car, I enter in to a sort of agreement that the driver knows how to drive. If you've ever been in a NY taxi, that is very, very questionable sometimes. Bad taxi drivers end up giving all taxi drivers a bad image, regardless of how many good drivers are out there, people remember the bad ones. A bad enough experience and people may never take a taxi again.

I do realize taxi drivers are licensed, and DMs are not, but lets not split hairs. My point remains exactly the same. Instead, what do we tend to do...

"Dont blame the driver, blame the whiny passenger for the bumpy, heart-attack filled ride."
"It was the passenger's fault. He shouldve got out of the car when they hit the first detour."

I view someplace like Roll20 to be the equivalent to a group of friends sitting around a table, just without the need to drive to get there. I have no higher expectations from a GM in that environment than I do in a home game. It is frequently used by people who either can't find local groups, or the local groups they can find aren't playing the games they want to play, so if anything I would expect a lower level of competence and experience than I would from a face-to-face group. If I was paying someone to run a game, then I would expect a certain baseline level of competence, but that isn't the case.

I think this is where the taxi analogy breaks down too. Getting a bad DM on an online site is much more akin to bumming a ride to a party from someone you've seen around. You know that there are good drivers and bad drivers and that most people overestimate their driving skill, so you shouldn't be completely surprised if the person turns out to be a bad driver no matter how much they claim in advance to be a good driver. It's not the passenger's fault if the person is a bad driver and they are well within their rights to complain about the bad driving, and if bad enough even insist on the person stopping so they can get out of the car (and the earlier the better to shorten the walk back to where they started). However, if they choose to catch a ride with the same person again in the future, it is their fault for making that choice and they have no room to complain that they don't like riding with the person that they already knew was a bad driver. So back to gaming, the first session with a bad DM is the DM's fault. If the player comes back for another session or another game in the future after learning that the GM sucks, then that is the player's problem.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Where I took offense was people blaming the player.

Ironically though, you not only didn't take offense at blaming the DM (the one person who wasn't here to defend himself), but you partook in the insults and blaming yourself.

So forgive my raised eyebrows...

 

[Elf Witch]

since these came from my example allow me to call BS... the example was 5th level PCs open a door, and have to make a Save... or Die. It is a poor example of DMing because there is 0 way to avoide the effect, it is from a creature out of normal bounds, and it ended the campaign

he looked at the weight and did a huge fist of d6's reflex save for half... the half was more then any PC had at full hp... so yes BAD DMING... that wasn't save or die, it was die even if you save... and what caused th edeath...winning the fight

If the party has not a chance to save because the CR threat is to high then yes that is bad DMing. But opening a door and finding bad things behind the door that sometimes kills you is part of the game. Tell how you avoid something like that? If you are in a dungeon don't you expect bad things to behind some of the doors?

I agree that making it impossible to save from a falling creature is lame but not the idea of making it something that could happen. When you shoot soething big out of the sky you have to figure that is is going to crash to the earth and that should be a part of your plan.