DMG2 Riding Boots, prereq feats, and the CW Cavalier PrC

[Artoomis]

Your current dex score with all modifiers from items and spells is your 'actual Dex', for as long as those modifiers are in effect.

-Hyp.

Says you. No place in the rules does it say that - in fact, character sheets from WotC have a place to write in temporary scores. Now that may be primarily for ability damage or "buffing" spells, but it applies equally well to items.

So, again, I say either way is within the rules.

I'm NOT saying you are wrong, I AM saying we are BOTH RIGHT.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No place in the rules does it say that...

Huh?

The gloves grant a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity.

Being an elf grants a +2 racial bonus to Dexterity.

You're claiming that one of those changes your 'actual score', and the other doesn't.

Both of them increase your Dexterity score by two points. Not your 'effective Dexterity score for certain purposes'; they are both simply a bonus to an ability score.

In the absence of rules to the contrary, how can they behave differently to each other?

... in fact, character sheets from WotC have a place to write in temporary scores. Now that may be primarily for ability damage or "buffing" spells, but it applies equally well to items.

Absolutely. And while that temporary score applies, it is the 'actual score'. Once it stops applying, the other score is your 'actual score'.

Let's say I have a non-humanoid creature with an Int of 2. I cast Fox's Cunning on it; it now has an Int of 6.

What penalty does someone take when they attempt to feint it? -4, or -8?

Feinting in this way against a nonhumanoid is difficult because it’s harder to read a strange creature’s body language; you take a –4 penalty on your Bluff check. Against a creature of animal Intelligence (1 or 2) it’s even harder; you take a –8 penalty. Against a nonintelligent creature, it’s impossible.

Likewise the Glossolalia spell from XPH:

The spell affects only creatures with Intelligence scores of 3 or higher. Any such creatures within the spell’s area must succeed on Fortitude saves or be stunned for 1 round (if they have Intelligence scores of 20 or higher), dazed for 1 round (if they have Intelligence scores between 10 and 19), or shaken for 1 round (if they have Intelligence scores between 3 and 9).

Is the creature affected? What if it's an Int 8 half-orc, who under the Fox's Cunning spell has an Int of 12 - is he shaken or dazed on a failed save?

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

...
-Hyp.

Hyp. Hyp, Hyp. <shakes head>

There really are two ways of looking at this, both legitimate. Can't you just admit that?

 

[Borlon]

Artoomis,

You are applying a distinction between different ways of having an ability score without support from the rules. You can repeat "this is legitimate" as long as you like, but that doesn't make it so.

 

[Artoomis]

Artoomis,

You are applying a distinction between different ways of having an ability score without support from the rules. You can repeat "this is legitimate" as long as you like, but that doesn't make it so.

The rules do NOT specify what is means to have a Dex 13 prerequisite for a feat, for example. Sure, it MIGHT mean that if you have a Dex-buffing spell that lasts for a few minutes, then you can take that feat if those few minutes happen right when it is time to pick a feat. That;s a bit... silly, though, isn't it?

My argument is about interpretation and intent. I think the right way to read a prerequisite like that is that you REALLY need to have a 13 dex, not just a temporary or item-based boost that normally would go away at a moment's notice.

You can't really say I'm wrong, because it is about interpreting what a prerequisite is all about. It's about what you must have - and I say you don't really "have" an ability score if it's only temporarily boosted.

I could go on and on and quote dictionaries and bits and pieces of the rules and other things, but that's really just a foolish waste of time when I think BPTH sids are legitiamte - I've nothing to prove here. If you don't like my interpretation, don't use it. There, that was easy, wasn't it?

Now, if it makes you feel batter to call my interpretation a house-rule, then please youself. I think it falls well within the realm of core rules interpretations.

 

[Kershek]

Uh... wasn't that the first reply to the thread?

You asked about virtual feats, and I answered, so I thought you were going to make a follow-up response, when you didn't. No biggie.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The rules do NOT specify what is means to have a Dex 13 prerequisite for a feat, for example.

Hmm?

Is your Dex 13 or higher? If the answer is yes, you satisfy the prerequisite. If it subsequently drops below 13, you can't use the feat until you satisfy the prerequisite again.

If your Dex is 14, for whatever reason, the answer is yes.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You asked about virtual feats, and I answered, so I thought you were going to make a follow-up response, when you didn't. No biggie.

Ah. I thought the language might clear up the 'effects of' question.

As it's written, it seems that a 3E Ranger's TWF and Ambidexterity class features didn't actually fit the definition of Virtual Feats... but they were the most commonly-cited example in 3E of Virtual Feats, so I don't think the section helps answer the question.

-Hyp.

 

[glass]

*snort* *chuckle* *guffaw*
Sorry - I couldn't help myself.

That was more or less my reaction.


glass.