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DM's forfeit power
- Thread starter ashockney
- Start date
Dms, you want more control in your games...here's how you start:
DM: Mark, you've been flipping through those books for a while. What's up?
Mark: Oh man, I just had this awesome idea for a character. I want him to be able to throw twice as many shurikens as normal while tumbling!! Its the coolest idea ever!! So I'm looking for feats or prcs to give me the ability.
DM: (Closes book) Mark, you don't need anything for that, lets work on it together. Tell you what, if you take skill focus tumble I'll let you do a stunt where you can take a penalty to your tumble checks but then cna throw the shurikens. There will probably be a -1 penalty per every additional shuriken thrown though.
Mark: Oh okay, that works....hey if I roll really high, can I throw 3 times as many!!
Dm: Don't push it
DM: Mark, you've been flipping through those books for a while. What's up?
Mark: Oh man, I just had this awesome idea for a character. I want him to be able to throw twice as many shurikens as normal while tumbling!! Its the coolest idea ever!! So I'm looking for feats or prcs to give me the ability.
DM: (Closes book) Mark, you don't need anything for that, lets work on it together. Tell you what, if you take skill focus tumble I'll let you do a stunt where you can take a penalty to your tumble checks but then cna throw the shurikens. There will probably be a -1 penalty per every additional shuriken thrown though.
Mark: Oh okay, that works....hey if I roll really high, can I throw 3 times as many!!
Dm: Don't push it
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Organic growth is not always an issue of DM control.
For instance, in FFZ, I have a system for awarding treasure and abilities based on the encounters you face and the style of the campaign (which are in the hands of the GM). You can't always say with certainty that you'll have access to power X, Y, and Z....the adventure may lead you down a totally different path. The GM is encouraged to take your thoughts into consideration, but ultimately, even if he does that, you will get an intersting mesh of abilities and treasure.
For instance, the GM is playing a campaign centered around undead. You play a druid-like ecologist who rejects them as unnatural. The game becomes about the power of the earth and environment to expell the unnatural abominations that are the undead. You gain powers to fight the undead with nature (rather than powers to, say, talk with animals and turn into them). You become the cold grasp of the grave and the warm embrace of mother earth as themes of life and death come up in the course of the game.
This means that growth is very organic -- you don't get an ability unless there is a reason behind it -- but also doesn't require a lot of heavy-handed GM control. The system for generating rewards takes it into account -- the players could roll randomly themselves, if you wanted.
And it came from a videogame.
So
For instance, in FFZ, I have a system for awarding treasure and abilities based on the encounters you face and the style of the campaign (which are in the hands of the GM). You can't always say with certainty that you'll have access to power X, Y, and Z....the adventure may lead you down a totally different path. The GM is encouraged to take your thoughts into consideration, but ultimately, even if he does that, you will get an intersting mesh of abilities and treasure.
For instance, the GM is playing a campaign centered around undead. You play a druid-like ecologist who rejects them as unnatural. The game becomes about the power of the earth and environment to expell the unnatural abominations that are the undead. You gain powers to fight the undead with nature (rather than powers to, say, talk with animals and turn into them). You become the cold grasp of the grave and the warm embrace of mother earth as themes of life and death come up in the course of the game.
This means that growth is very organic -- you don't get an ability unless there is a reason behind it -- but also doesn't require a lot of heavy-handed GM control. The system for generating rewards takes it into account -- the players could roll randomly themselves, if you wanted.
And it came from a videogame.
So
paulsometimes
First Post
When I started role-playing, my characters were built as they progressed. I started with what I thought was cool and when advancing, took on whatever seemed coolest at the time. With 3.x, I began thinking of character concepts in which each level was looked at as a building stage towards my final product. However, while 3.x does seem to make character development this way a bit more manageable and desireable (thanks to prestige classes), I don't think the game is necessarily the culprit.
I've met people that have done their characters this way from the day they started playing (or close to it). I know some people that still don't do it (or try their best not to). I didn't start doing it until I heard of others doing, but that's probably only because I hadn't thought of it. Do I feel I have any less personal investment in a character because of doing it this way? Not at all. I almost think I appreciate my characters a bit more now at their higher levels. It used to be I'd look at my high level characters wonering why on Earth did I take a bunch of ranks in Tumble at the early levels when my character is more of a tank-type.
Also, I don't see how some people think planning your character out is a bit unrealistic. It's almost like how in high school, teachers and counselors encourage you to start planning where you're going to college, what you'll study, and what kind of career you'll have. Granted, many of these choices change through time, but so do many choices for character progress.
I've met people that have done their characters this way from the day they started playing (or close to it). I know some people that still don't do it (or try their best not to). I didn't start doing it until I heard of others doing, but that's probably only because I hadn't thought of it. Do I feel I have any less personal investment in a character because of doing it this way? Not at all. I almost think I appreciate my characters a bit more now at their higher levels. It used to be I'd look at my high level characters wonering why on Earth did I take a bunch of ranks in Tumble at the early levels when my character is more of a tank-type.
Also, I don't see how some people think planning your character out is a bit unrealistic. It's almost like how in high school, teachers and counselors encourage you to start planning where you're going to college, what you'll study, and what kind of career you'll have. Granted, many of these choices change through time, but so do many choices for character progress.
Mark CMG said:
Yes and no. I recognize that if you have an especially creative, fair-minded, and inspired DM, it may be good to have lots of flexibility. But how many truly great DMs like this are really out there? We all *wish* we were great DMs. And many of us try very hard. But let's face it, the number of DMs out there on a par with Piratecat or Monte Cook is probably relatively low. (And most of those are probably all regular posters here on ENWorld.) So for those one-in-a-hundred DMs out there, a strictly structured rules system like 3.x may be too confining.
But for the rest of us DMs out there who are only of average quality and experience, it's nice to have a bunch of black and white rules to refer back to when you're not sure what to do in a given situation. Just making up the rules as you go along will work well for those top shelf DMs who have players hanging on their every word. Personally, though, I kind of like being able to ask my players, "How does grapple work again?" and they can look it up for me while I take care of something else.
I think having a concrete set of rules available to everyone has been empowering for players and useful for the vast majority of DMs who aren't good at just making rules up on the spot.
Henry said:
It occurs to me that the simplest fix for prestige classes is to go ahead and have them, but don't allow the players to know which ones are available until they are encountered in game. The players may know of guilds of assassins, or various knightly orders, but if they don't know the mechanics until they learn about them in-game, they can't plan ahead.
Umbran said:
In a perfect game world, it would work like that. And if pre-reqs for prestige class were less strict, made more sense, allowed for substitutions.. It would work. As is, in too many cases you might as well ban them as to do that, since you'll get pretty much the same results.
