Do Christians and muslims worship the same God?

[Kramodlog]

I..I don't know that there is a word for what I'm thinking.

[video]http://i.memeful.com/media/post/1d4BJDM_700wa_0.gif[/video]

 

[The_Silversword]

Maybe my grandmother was right, White god created white people, black god created black people, chinese god created Chinese people and so on ,so they were all able to reproduce with each other and populate the world. Or maybe God endorses incest.

But, I still like my theory that Adam & Eve werent the only ones on the planet, and they were created to be the pinnacle of humankind, the perfect specimen or whatever.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Well, I'm not a bible literalist, so the whole reproduction thing isn't a problem for me.

However...

In a very real sense, Adam & Eve as the literal genesis of all humanity is kind of necessary precondition to the theology behind why Original Sin taints us all.

Again, though, if you're not a literalist, Original Sin and its origin is allegorical- it affects us all because there wasn't one single act, but rather, general disobedience on humanity's part.

 

[Remus Lupin]

I'm late to this conversation, but here's my two cents (or 6 cents, as the case may be), and a couple of follow ups:

http://www.scottpaeth.com/2015/12/do-christians-and-muslims-worship-the-same-god.html
http://www.scottpaeth.com/2015/12/christians-muslims-and-god-take-two.html
http://www.scottpaeth.com/2015/12/once-more-into-the-one-god-breach-dear-friends.html

Thanks.

 

[Umbran]

But, I still like my theory that Adam & Eve werent the only ones on the planet, and they were created to be the pinnacle of humankind, the perfect specimen or whatever.

Depending on your preferred Apocrypha, there's also Lilith - God's first attempt at woman, and Adam's first wife. Made from the same earth as Adam (as opposed as being made from Adam's rib) she's a bit... independent. She refuses to be subservient to Adam and either leaves or is tossed about, depending which version you read.

She then couples with the archangel Samael....

 

[The_Silversword]

I thought Lilith was more of a Jewish thing and didnt make it into any Christian texts?

 

[Umbran]

I thought Lilith was more of a Jewish thing and didnt make it into any Christian texts?

Thus my comment about Apocrypha. Though, why are you worried about it being a Christian text, specifically? Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, and Seth appear in all the Abrahamic religions.

Clearly, the Bible itself doesn't actually resolve the question - they do not say where Seth gets a wife/partner, merely that he begets children. We must make suppositions. What would you prefer - to suppose new things not in the texts at all, or things from texts that don't happen to be included in some specific anthology gathered in the 1500s, but are part of the overall Judeo-Christian tradition?

Other Apocrypha are more clear - that Seth marries his sister Azura. But it is from the Book of Jubilees, from 2nd century BC, and so not a "Christian" text either, as it is not considered canon, and from a couple hundred years before the Christian church.

 

[Tonguez]

Adam had a third son named Seth. Genesis 5: 4-5 "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters"

Seth obvously was able to reproduce via parthenogenesis.

it amuses me that the Bible avoids thoughts of incest here and yet explicitly includes it in the story of Lot. Then again perhaps the biblical account acknowledges that Adam and eve were the first Cro-Magnons and that the people in the Land of Nod were neanderthals (and thus not truely humans) that would explain why Adam and Eve were special but Seth was able to find a wife.


.despite being polytheistic my culture explicit acknowledges that incest was necessary for humanity to exist. The story being that the Procreator god mated with various divine females to give birth to various living things including dragons, rocks, magma, trees and birds. He then goes and ask his mother Earth where he will find the mortal essence and is sent to her pubic mound where he finds the first woman. He mates with her and has a daughter (the dawn) who he also later takes to wife and thus descends the first humans. When the daughter discovers that her husband is also her father she is horrified and flees into the underworld thus opening the pathway to death.

So we have an explicit acknowledgement that mating with mothers and daughters was required but also condemnation of the practice as leading to death

 

[The_Silversword]

Thus my comment about Apocrypha. Though, why are you worried about it being a Christian text, specifically? Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, and Seth appear in all the Abrahamic religions.

Clearly, the Bible itself doesn't actually resolve the question - they do not say where Seth gets a wife/partner, merely that he begets children. We must make suppositions. What would you prefer - to suppose new things not in the texts at all, or things from texts that don't happen to be included in some specific anthology gathered in the 1500s, but are part of the overall Judeo-Christian tradition?

Other Apocrypha are more clear - that Seth marries his sister Azura. But it is from the Book of Jubilees, from 2nd century BC, and so not a "Christian" text either, as it is not considered canon, and from a couple hundred years before the Christian church.

I was under the impression that the Apocrypha was more of a Catholic thing, and that early Christian leaders basically edited out parts from the Jewish texts that they didn't agree with, like Adam having multiple wives. And I'm not worried at all about Lilith appearing in a "Christianized" text, Its just that I thought we were talking about Creation specific to the Christian Bible, but I personally believe that for Christians to really understand their religion and Jesus they should probably read up on the Tanakh, Muslims too. Actually, I think that all religion has some truth to it. I personally believe that God is real, although I dont believe in some old bearded guy on a throne in the clouds or whatever, but I think the universe has a sort of intelligence to it far beyond our understanding, and each religion sorta gives their view of that, but the big picture is so big that we cant see it all, just bits and pieces, so if you took all the world's religions and put them all together you might have some semblance of the truth, so I guess I'm a Jewish/Buddhist/Hindu/Spiritualist/Taoist/Whatever else, but I believe that Jesus was real, I mean he has a whole time keeping system based on his birth, and his message and deeds traveled far and wide way before the age of the internet, so I figure there must be something there, so I usually label myself as a Christian even though my beliefs dont mesh well with other Christians' beliefs, and may even be called blasphemy.

But anyways, I was just sticking to "Christian" texts cause I thought thats what the conversation was focusing on, and most Christians seem to hate it when you bring up stuff from other religions, like Judaism, cause Jesus is the New Law and Christians can ignore all that Old Testament stuff and eat bacon.

 

[The_Silversword]

it amuses me that the Bible avoids thoughts of incest here and yet explicitly includes it in the story of Lot. Then again perhaps the biblical account acknowledges that Adam and eve were the first Cro-Magnons and that the people in the Land of Nod were neanderthals (and thus not truely humans) that would explain why Adam and Eve were special but Seth was able to find a wife.


.despite being polytheistic my culture explicit acknowledges that incest was necessary for humanity to exist. The story being that the Procreator god mated with various divine females to give birth to various living things including dragons, rocks, magma, trees and birds. He then goes and ask his mother Earth where he will find the mortal essence and is sent to her pubic mound where he finds the first woman. He mates with her and has a daughter (the dawn) who he also later takes to wife and thus descends the first humans. When the daughter discovers that her husband is also her father she is horrified and flees into the underworld thus opening the pathway to death.

So we have an explicit acknowledgement that mating with mothers and daughters was required but also condemnation of the practice as leading to death

How it was explained to me was that yes incest is bad, but Gods command of be fruitful and multiply trumps that, so if all you have to mate with is your mother or sister or whatever, then its ok as long as you produce some offspring, so Lot and his daughters were ok cause they thought they was repopulating the world cause everyone else was dead, they didnt realize that God only nuked 2 cities, not the whole world. Likewise its totally cool for David to send his best friend off to die and sleep with his wife cause that produced Solomon, who turned out to be a great Jewish king, so all was forgiven.

I'm not saying that I think that makes it ok, just that thats how it was explained to me.