Do Healing Surges close wounds?

[Obryn]

I don't think it matters one way or the other. HPs are HPs, and Surges are your Reserve, and what that means is necessarily left vague. (And for the record, I don't think that the "Unconscious" status must necessarily mean unconsciousness in a real-world sense, either.) There's nothing wrong with describing someone as bruised and bloody, but 4e HPs shouldn't represent stuff like broken bones, concussions, severed limbs, etc.

If I want to model long-term injuries, I have other, better ways of doing it.

Clerics and Bards heal with divine and arcane magic. This doesn't automatically mean they're patching up wounds - a cleric of Kord could just as easily be doing something through divine power like a Warlord does with martial power - inspiring people to ignore the pain and power through. Ardents could be dominating your mind to make you forget your wounds, suppressing pain, or patching stuff up. So not only isn't there a 1:1 wounds:hp ratio, there's no necessary relationship between power sources and means of healing.

This level of abstraction bothers the crap out of some people. It doesn't bother me in the least, but they're not wrong for being bothered by it.

-O

 

[DracoSuave]

The question is inherently meaningless.

You might as well ask 'How do you visualize an attack against Fortitude?' You think you have an answer, but then you realise every attack against Fortitude does different things... some are poisons breathed in, some are physical brainings with maces, others are slamming into them with magical forcefields, others are lifting them up and dropping them somewhere else. There is no consistant answer


What is the nature of the injury? What is the nature of the character injured? What is permitting the spending of that healing surge? Is it during combat? After combat? Is it a second wind? Was it a Warlord, or a Paladin? Was it magic or mundane?

The only really good answer is let the players play it out and describe it in whichever way they feel is appropriate and fun. That's why the lack of consistancy is good... the roleplay and narrative can decide.

 

[MrBeens]

As I said before, we might as well be in the original thread, as exactly the same things are now being discussed.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/312254-i-dont-get-dislike-healing-surges.html

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

How is that "Other", rather than "Sometimes"?

Because, by RAW, there are no Wounds in D&D. Not a single edition of it. So, you can certainly add them as DM as part of the descriptio of damage, but they are not an assumed part of the game, so I don't believe the question cannot be answered directly. OTHER.

 

[Minigiant]

There are no official mortal wounds in D&D. You cannot officially die from a wound until the character actually dies.

Until your character croaks, there are few instances when the rules say a character is hit hard enough to have a wound that the player would worry about until the payer say so.

 

[jeffh]

I don't even know what "there are no wounds in D&D" is supposed to mean, no matter how many people repeat it as though it were a mantra. Yes, I understand (and in fact, have written fairly extensively about) the abstract nature of hit points and that they don't necessarily equate to physical damage. But there's nothing saying they never do, either - quite the opposite, in fact.

If you mean wounds don't have a specific mechanical effect (that isn't also shared with lots of other stuff via the hit point system), okay, sure. But that's very different from saying they don't exist.

 

[Tony Vargas]

There two mechanical ways, in D&D to determine if a wound was a real, mortal wound: Iif the character either fails his third death save or reaches -bloodied hps. The fact of character death is the only thing that determines that there was a real, mortal wound.

Prior to that, he could just be out or momentarily overcome, and pop up the moment the Warlord yells at him, instantly ready to fight, and back at the top of his game after a 5 minute rest.

 

[mneme]

He's not at the top of his game, though--he's down healing surges (which, yes, will be restored at the end of an extended rest. This is really the only thing that stops 4e from feeling "realistic" as opposed to a little abstract, aside from not having enough disease-like things). You could just as easily say that every hit represents a real wound--but the character will be able to overcome the wound through willpower and stamina--unless they run out of said resources and succumb.

I'd guess that this is why the poll was predominantly "sometimes". Because it simply doesn't -matter- on a system level whether there was a wound or not, it's totally up to narration. Which means that depending on how things were narrated, there might not even -be- a wound to narrate. I mean, -obviously- if a wound was described, and someone uses magic to heal, this will usually involve healing the wound (or maybe patching it over, but with the wound itself remaining). But also, obviously, one could take several hits and, according to narration not have a wound, so when the cleric comes in to heal you, all he's doing is making you feel better.

Actually, the only other consistent result (given that there might not be a wound) is the 20% result -- that surge expenditures never heal wounds. After all, all you're doing when you spend a surge is exchange one form of damage (hp) for another (surges). So clearly the person isn't all better; they're still injured in a way that cannot be restored except though extended rest or powerful magic. The damage is still there, beneath the surface--limiting how much more you can be healed that day.

 

[Aberzanzorax]

Quick question:

In earlier editions there were different types of poison - some were contact, some were injury. In order to take injury poison damage, it meant the person was wounded (even if just the tiniest scratch)...that was basically hardcoded into the mechanics.


In 4e are there any conditions that require "injury" (not just a hit) in order to take effect (for example, but not limited to, poison specifically based upon injury, not just a hit)?

 

[Obryn]

"Injury" isn't a defined mechanical term.

The Assassin in Heroes of Shadow has a large assortment of poisons, with both in- and out-of-combat use. The ones that work if applied to a weapon don't require an edged weapon. The ones that work if applied to an object, food, etc. all are defined in the poison's description.

Again, this is a rather irrelevant question for 4e. It's a narrative distinction, from the land of fluff.

-O