Do Random Tables Reduce Player Agency?

[Mannahnin]

I had a thought and couldn't find an appropriate existing thread.

Does the use of random tables in play reduce player agency in gameplay? I am specifically talking about generative tables used to provide inspiration or even outright game elements to the GM when the PCs explore an otherwise undefined area.

Sort of, I guess would be my answer.

Player agency means the ability to affect and change the game world. To make meaningful choices. Often during a game players are working with incomplete information, sometimes without any at all. Given the choice of a T intersection in a dungeon with nothing to distinguish between the alternatives, the choice between them is arbitrary, not informed, right? And sometimes such choices will crop up in games- where the PCs have no particular data to distinguish between the options. These are situations where agency is relatively low, but still not necessarily absent. If, for example, they have the option to turn back, or to spend resources on an Augury spell, or send a stealthy scout ahead down one or both passages to GAIN further info, they certainly still have some agency!

Going back to your random tables of wilderness encounters, I would say that without any prior info about the potential contents of the tables, agency is again relatively low. But especially if they have ways to GAIN further info, such as by seeking out rumors, asking local merchants or caravan guards who travel those roads, then again, agency exists. In such a case, I would be likely to give the players some info about the random tables, either out of game or diegetically. Say the players find and question some caravan guards about the more dangerous route. And I know that the three most common results on the table (6,7,8 on a 2d6 table, for example) are organized Orc raiding parties, small groups of trolls, and a band of Ogre brigards, the guards could tell the PCs about these relatively common threats. As well as maybe mentioning that a black dragon has been seen occasionally (it's a 12 on the table, but it's scary enough that everyone remembers hearing about sightings). Knowing about these threats the PCs could choose to keep Sleep and Fireball prepared, and maybe check town for potions or scrolls of Acid Resistance just in case.

And if there's any info at all, that's still agency because it's something to go on, some data on which to base a meaningful decision. In the specific example you gave (one road is half the travel time but double the chance of encounters) the difference is relatively small all other factors being equal, but if one is expected to take a week and get them there in time for the coronation in nine days (say) and the other is expected to take two weeks... well, just knowing that is enough to make the fast road a meaningfully superior choice if their priority is getting there in time for the coronation. Though in this specific example the slow road isn't meaningfully superior if their priority is just to get there alive, due to the math of the particular specifics you gave.

 

[Breaking Star Games]

One of the best ways to increase player agency is to make future troubles/obstacles based on past decisions. Reincorporation as Avatar Legends would call it or Blowback as Unknown Armies likes to call it. How to set up these blowbacks can easily be inspired by a random table when the GM is creatively exhausted of ideas for how PC consequences from 2 sessions ago can bite them in the butt.

I think looking at the Oracle Tables in Ironsworn/Starforged (especially the latter) can show the flexibility of random tables. Especially so when they are used as surface to crystallize your own creativity around them.

But yeah like any tool, I could see it being harmful to the enjoyment of the game - a GM just running random encounters that don't care about player agency.

 

[delericho]

I think there's a sliding scale at play - to have agency, players must have the information to make meaningful decisions. The better the information they have, the more meaningful those choices, and the more agency they have.

That being the case, the use of random tables does indeed reduce their agency, at least somewhat.

That said, while it's definitely a good thing for players to have agency, I'm far from convinced that they should have total agency. It's valid to expect them to have to make some decisions based on imperfect, or even no, information.

(Incidentally, the example in the OP also provides a false dichotomy - do they take the quick and dangerous road, or the slow and safer one? But they have other options - stay where they are, find a different way to travel, or perform research to determine how and why one route is more dangerous than the other. That last option shouldn't be overlooked, and if done successfully should indicate that the dangers appear to be similar in type but double as frequent on the more dangerous route.)

 

[mamba]

The reason I asked is that some definitions of "player agency" demand a certain level of understanding potential outcomes. I am curious where that line is for folks.

no, and you understand the outcome, one has more / more dangerous encounters

It’s not gonna be “one one you will find a troll and on the other a green dragon, which route do you take?”

 

[mamba]

It seems like if the players should make informed choices, they ought to be made aware of the mechanics behind them.

no, knowing that one is twice as dangerous than the other is sufficient. They do not need to know the details of how this is accomplished

 

[kenada]

no, knowing that one is more dangerous than the other is sufficient. They do not need to know the details of how this is accomplished

Is there a way to find out the nature of the danger? If the players are just picking blindly based on “more dangerous”, I would not consider that an informed decision.

 

[billd91]

Ultimately, I think it depends on the nature of the choices made and the result of the random table. If, for example, the players are spoiling for fights and choose the more dangerous route in the hope of some memorable encounters, the dice could potentially generate... nothing on the typical random encounter table. In that sense, the random tables haven't exactly done anything to support the players' agency. The DM would have endorsed their agency better by ignoring the dice and giving them the fights they were looking for.

 

[Mannahnin]

Is there a way to find out the nature of the danger? If the players are just picking blindly based on “more dangerous”, I would not consider that an informed decision.

Informed here is a sliding scale. A matter of degrees. "More dangerous" is info. It's just minimal. "This road occasionally has troll raiders on it" would be more info. "The trolls number exactly 15 in total, though no more than 5 have ever been seen in a single warband" would be even more. "The trolls are hungry now due to a lack of recent traffic and the forest being denuded of game by the magical smog currently infesting it, so the entire pack is desperately hunting up and down the road, day and night, looking for food" would be yet more.

 

[Umbran]

What do you think?

Agency lies in being able to make informed choices.

You can preserve agency and use random tables if you use the table far enough in advance that the players can gain information about what was generated, and make choices based on it, or not.

F'rex, if you roll the dice to generate a monster while the party is opening the door into the room, you have eliminated some agency. If you roll the dice several rooms back, such that you can work evidence of the encounter into the environment, you can preserve agency.

 

[Tonguez]

So, to be clear, are you saying that the players have to know what the probable encounters might be for the choice to be meaningful?

No not that the need to know what the encounters are, just that some information, even if its just description of terrain is probably needed beyond just 'dangerous path'. Even something as simple as "the shorter road will take you down into the swamp and well the creatures there arent too friendly." PCs the asking the locals about 'what kinds of creatures?" would then be a likely next bit of rp

DnD is a game of imagination, so I'd at least give a few rumors to trigger the players imagination. Although putting a black dragon in my earlier response was probably a bit overkill