Do you believe we are alone in the universe?

The universe is far, far, far too big and ancient a place to reasonably rule out life elsewhere. Even if the galaxy is currently lacking intelligent life other than our own (and I'm not convinced it is - our expectations of what intelligent life should be doing with itself is, obviously, prejudiced toward our own ideals), I don't think it was nor will be. I'm also much more optimistic about FTL.

 

[Hussar]

That doesn't matter, though. Intelligence IS a survival trait just as I claimed it was. Nature does select for it, even if not in most species. The same can be said for the ability to camouflage like a chameleon or octopus. It's a great, handy dandy survival trait that is only in a few species. Being in a few species doesn't mean that it isn't an elite ability. For intelligence at least, it's also very hard to reach, which limits how many species have such a great survival trait.

There are easily as many species out there that can camouflage (as in change color or pigmentation) as there are intelligent ones.

But, "great survival trait"? What's the proof of that? Vitually every other intelligent species, chimps, whales and dolphins, etc. are endangered. Hardly seems like a great survival trait. And, again, the only species we've seen with tool using intelligence is us. One. One species. And, we've only been around for an eyeblink compared to a multitude of other species.

Get back to me in ten or fifteen million years and let's see how great intelligence is as a survival trait.

 

[Jhaelen]

And, again, the only species we've seen with tool using intelligence is us. One. One species.

???
That's completely wrong. Tools are used by plenty of animals: apes, otters, birds, even fish.

 

[Maxperson]

There are easily as many species out there that can camouflage (as in change color or pigmentation) as there are intelligent ones.

Again, so what. This is a Red Herring.

But, "great survival trait"? What's the proof of that? Vitually every other intelligent species, chimps, whales and dolphins, etc. are endangered. Hardly seems like a great survival trait.

They were doing great until a greater intelligence came along.

And, again, the only species we've seen with tool using intelligence is us. One. One species.

This is false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_use_by_animals

And, we've only been around for an eyeblink compared to a multitude of other species.

And we are dominating the world, driving many other species to extinction because they can't cope with our survival trait.

 

[Morrus]

And we are dominating the world, driving many other species to extinction because they can't cope with our survival trait.

Briefly.

The cockroaches will outlast us when our “survival” trait kills us.

 

[Maxperson]

Briefly.

The cockroaches will outlast us when our “survival” trait kills us.

That's a possibility, but it's not assured. I can tell you this, though. Intelligence might get us off our plane in the future to somewhere else or multiple somewhere elses, where we can survive, enabling us to survive the expansion of the sun, planet killing asteroids, comets, etc. Cockroaches and every other non-intelligent species will all ultimately die when the planet does.

 

[Morrus]

That's a possibility, but it's not assured. I can tell you this, though. Intelligence might get us off our plane in the future to somewhere else or multiple somewhere elses, where we can survive, enabling us to survive the expansion of the sun, planet killing asteroids, comets, etc.

That’s a possibility, but it’s not assured. *shrug*

None of us know. We’re all just offering at-best semi-informed guesses.

Climate change, AI, more advanced weapons of mass destruction... our intelligence could prove to be the exact opposite of a survival trait. It might even be the answer to Fermi’s Paradox.

 

[Janx]

Cockroaches and every other non-intelligent species will all ultimately die when the planet does.

side bar:
There's a decent chance that if we get off the planet, cockroaches, rats and germs will also get off the planet. They have a habit of finding their way into our cargo and luggage, despite not knowing where we're going.

 

[Maxperson]

side bar:
There's a decent chance that if we get off the planet, cockroaches, rats and germs will also get off the planet. They have a habit of finding their way into our cargo and luggage, despite not knowing where we're going.

That's true! They will be relying on our intelligence, though, not theirs.

 

[Maxperson]

That’s a possibility, but it’s not assured. *shrug*

None of us know. We’re all just offering at-best semi-informed guesses.

Climate change, AI, more advanced weapons of mass destruction... our intelligence could prove to be the exact opposite of a survival trait. It might even be the answer to Fermi’s Paradox.

I agree. On the other hand, scientific advances might enable us to scrub the pollutants out of the atmosphere in 10 or 20 years. Science is like a snowball rolling downhill. It keeps progressing bigger and faster. Maybe it smashes us. Maybe it smashes our problems. As you say, none of us know.

 

[MoonSong]

I agree. On the other hand, scientific advances might enable us to scrub the pollutants out of the atmosphere in 10 or 20 years. Science is like a snowball rolling downhill. It keeps progressing bigger and faster. Maybe it smashes us. Maybe it smashes our problems. As you say, none of us know.

With the replicability crisis and the politicization of science we are going through right now? I wish I was as optimistic.